Spear of the stars - Revision history

Twiggy at 15:03, 4 April 2026

2026-04-04T15:03:49Z

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	Any such negotiation would ideally begin with a [[Call Winged Messenger\|winged messenger]] dispatched to Rak Who Speaks For The Dragons United, at the rooms he occupies above the Red Lantern, in Void.		Any such negotiation would ideally begin with a [[Call Winged Messenger\|winged messenger]] dispatched to Rak Who Speaks For The Dragons United, at the rooms he occupies above the Red Lantern, in Void.

	<quote by="Veikko, ~~Wintermar~~ National Assembly">We the Stormcrows of Wintermark demand reparations from the Thule for the murdered Wintermarkers found in the green iron mines in Crow's Ridge.</quote>		<quote by="Veikko, Wintermark National Assembly">We the Stormcrows of Wintermark demand reparations from the Thule for the murdered Wintermarkers found in the green iron mines in Crow's Ridge.</quote>
	==Resolution==		==Resolution==
	The Imperial Senate appointed Juha the Spider as the first [[Ambassador to Otkodov]] during the Spring Equinox, but declined the Thule offer to make the post a national Varushkan title. They began work on an [[Miekarova#Embassy_to_Otkodov\|embassy to Otkodov]] shortly after the Summer solstice, and work was completed just before the Autumn equinox.		The Imperial Senate appointed Juha the Spider as the first [[Ambassador to Otkodov]] during the Spring Equinox, but declined the Thule offer to make the post a national Varushkan title. They began work on an [[Miekarova#Embassy_to_Otkodov\|embassy to Otkodov]] shortly after the Summer solstice, and work was completed just before the Autumn equinox.

Matt: Text replacement - "[[Imperial Senate" to "[[Senate"

2026-01-15T15:03:19Z

Text replacement - "[[Imperial Senate" to "[[Senate"

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	Dogri Thulebane has been [[381YE_Spring_Equinox_winds_of_war#Wolf_in_the_Fold_.28Skarsind.29\|taken into custody]] by the [[Varushka_military_concerns#The_Army_of_the_Iron_Helms\|Iron Helms]], Crow's Keep is in ruins, and [[Skarsind#Crow.E2.80.99s_Ridge\|Crow's Ridge]] under the control of the [[Imperial Orcs]]. The passes from western [[Otkodov]] into [[Skarsind]] are open, and a threat to the Thule has been removed from their borders.		Dogri Thulebane has been [[381YE_Spring_Equinox_winds_of_war#Wolf_in_the_Fold_.28Skarsind.29\|taken into custody]] by the [[Varushka_military_concerns#The_Army_of_the_Iron_Helms\|Iron Helms]], Crow's Keep is in ruins, and [[Skarsind#Crow.E2.80.99s_Ridge\|Crow's Ridge]] under the control of the [[Imperial Orcs]]. The passes from western [[Otkodov]] into [[Skarsind]] are open, and a threat to the Thule has been removed from their borders.

	On the other side of the Empire, the [[~~Imperial~~ Senate]] has [[Allocate_Gift_of_the_Dwindling_Star\|allocated]] the [[Gift of the Dwindling Star]] as a [[Varushka\|Varushkan]] National Bourse Seat, in accordance with the wishes of the Northern [[orc\|orcs]]. The orc warlock known as Rak Who Speaks for the Dragons United is a seemingly permanent fixture in the offices associated with the new Bourse Seat - if you can call three rooms above an inn (previously the ''Red Lamb'', now the ''Red Lantern'') "offices", serving as a de facto Thule ambassador.		On the other side of the Empire, the [[Senate]] has [[Allocate_Gift_of_the_Dwindling_Star\|allocated]] the [[Gift of the Dwindling Star]] as a [[Varushka\|Varushkan]] National Bourse Seat, in accordance with the wishes of the Northern [[orc\|orcs]]. The orc warlock known as Rak Who Speaks for the Dragons United is a seemingly permanent fixture in the offices associated with the new Bourse Seat - if you can call three rooms above an inn (previously the ''Red Lamb'', now the ''Red Lantern'') "offices", serving as a de facto Thule ambassador.

	The Thule continue to extend the cautious hand of friendship to the Empire - or the northern parts of it at least. There are rumours of secret meetings with Varushkans, private negotiations between agents of the Dragons and emissaries of the [[Navarr]], cautious overtures to the [[Imperial Orcs]], and even some guarded gossip that some of the halls of [[Wintermark]] are interested in opening a dialogue with their former barbarian enemies.		The Thule continue to extend the cautious hand of friendship to the Empire - or the northern parts of it at least. There are rumours of secret meetings with Varushkans, private negotiations between agents of the Dragons and emissaries of the [[Navarr]], cautious overtures to the [[Imperial Orcs]], and even some guarded gossip that some of the halls of [[Wintermark]] are interested in opening a dialogue with their former barbarian enemies.
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	In the six months since, and in the wake of Dogri Thulebane's removal, these demands have been discussed and repeated several times by priests in Wintermark, and by their allies. If the [[Assembly#General_Assembly\|General Assembly]] were to echo the Wintermark assembly's demands with a strongly worded statement of principle that likewise secured a greater majority, this would publicly demonstrate Synod concerns in a manner that would be hard to ignore.		In the six months since, and in the wake of Dogri Thulebane's removal, these demands have been discussed and repeated several times by priests in Wintermark, and by their allies. If the [[Assembly#General_Assembly\|General Assembly]] were to echo the Wintermark assembly's demands with a strongly worded statement of principle that likewise secured a greater majority, this would publicly demonstrate Synod concerns in a manner that would be hard to ignore.

	Alternatively, the [[~~Imperial~~ Senate]] could make a formal approach to the Thule. This would initiate formal negotiations about the return of these alleged slaves, or an investigation into the alleged crime involving the green iron mine (and the concept of reparations for breaches of law is at least tacitly supported by the [[Accept_Thule_peace_treaty\|Thule peace treaty]] paragraph concerning raiding). Such an approach from the Senate would certainly have some effect, but the more formal authority the person responsible for sending such a message has the more effective it is likely to be. Ideally, such an approach would come from a newly appointed [[#Ambassador to the Thule\|Ambassador]] to have the best effect. The [[Imperial Consul]] certainly possesses the legal authority to initiate such contact in the absence of an ambassador, and in theory the [[Advisor on Orc Affairs]] would also be a suitable individual to begin this discussion.		Alternatively, the [[Senate]] could make a formal approach to the Thule. This would initiate formal negotiations about the return of these alleged slaves, or an investigation into the alleged crime involving the green iron mine (and the concept of reparations for breaches of law is at least tacitly supported by the [[Accept_Thule_peace_treaty\|Thule peace treaty]] paragraph concerning raiding). Such an approach from the Senate would certainly have some effect, but the more formal authority the person responsible for sending such a message has the more effective it is likely to be. Ideally, such an approach would come from a newly appointed [[#Ambassador to the Thule\|Ambassador]] to have the best effect. The [[Imperial Consul]] certainly possesses the legal authority to initiate such contact in the absence of an ambassador, and in theory the [[Advisor on Orc Affairs]] would also be a suitable individual to begin this discussion.

	One element that will need to be borne in mind during any negotiation is a recent [[Amend_crime_of_slavery\|change to the law]] with regard to slavery. The law makes it illegal to pay for or purchase slaves for any reason - except with regard the repatriation of Imperial citizens. While this law would not obstruct paying a ransom for recently captured slaves, it might prove a significant impediment to any deal that involved the children or grandchildren of Imperial citizens. It may be wise to seek clarification from the magistrates before any agreement is finalised.		One element that will need to be borne in mind during any negotiation is a recent [[Amend_crime_of_slavery\|change to the law]] with regard to slavery. The law makes it illegal to pay for or purchase slaves for any reason - except with regard the repatriation of Imperial citizens. While this law would not obstruct paying a ransom for recently captured slaves, it might prove a significant impediment to any deal that involved the children or grandchildren of Imperial citizens. It may be wise to seek clarification from the magistrates before any agreement is finalised.

RichardRaynor at 21:29, 31 January 2022

2022-01-31T21:29:31Z

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	[[Category:Winds of Fortune]][[Category:381YE]][[Category:Recent History]]		[[Category:Winds of Fortune]][[Category:381YE Spring]][[Category:Recent History]]
	<ic>"In Wintermark they call it Rhyv, the bleeding wound, or the bloody dagger" said Dalbor, touching the runestone carefully. "The rune of blood - healing and harming like the double-edged knife."		<ic>"In Wintermark they call it Rhyv, the bleeding wound, or the bloody dagger" said Dalbor, touching the runestone carefully. "The rune of blood - healing and harming like the double-edged knife."

Matt at 21:47, 30 July 2020

2020-07-30T21:47:14Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:47, 30 July 2020
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	In the six months since, and in the wake of Dogri Thulebane's removal, these demands have been discussed and repeated several times by priests in Wintermark, and by their allies. If the [[Assembly#General_Assembly\|General Assembly]] were to echo the Wintermark assembly's demands with a strongly worded statement of principle that likewise secured a greater majority, this would publicly demonstrate Synod concerns in a manner that would be hard to ignore.		In the six months since, and in the wake of Dogri Thulebane's removal, these demands have been discussed and repeated several times by priests in Wintermark, and by their allies. If the [[Assembly#General_Assembly\|General Assembly]] were to echo the Wintermark assembly's demands with a strongly worded statement of principle that likewise secured a greater majority, this would publicly demonstrate Synod concerns in a manner that would be hard to ignore.

	Alternatively, the [[Imperial Senate]] could make a formal approach to the Thule. This would initiate formal negotiations about the return of these alleged slaves, or an investigation into the alleged crime involving the green iron mine (and the concept of reparations for breaches of law is at least tacitly supported by the [[Accept_Thule_peace_treaty\|Thule peace treaty]] paragraph concerning raiding). Such an approach from the Senate would certainly have some effect, but the more formal authority the person responsible for sending such a message has the more effective it is likely to be. Ideally, such an approach would come from a newly appointed [[#Ambassador to the Thule\|Ambassador]] to have the best effect. The [[Imperial Consul]] certainly possesses the legal authority to initiate such contact in the absence of an ambassador, and in theory the [[Advisor on ~~orc affairs~~]] would also be a suitable individual to begin this discussion.		Alternatively, the [[Imperial Senate]] could make a formal approach to the Thule. This would initiate formal negotiations about the return of these alleged slaves, or an investigation into the alleged crime involving the green iron mine (and the concept of reparations for breaches of law is at least tacitly supported by the [[Accept_Thule_peace_treaty\|Thule peace treaty]] paragraph concerning raiding). Such an approach from the Senate would certainly have some effect, but the more formal authority the person responsible for sending such a message has the more effective it is likely to be. Ideally, such an approach would come from a newly appointed [[#Ambassador to the Thule\|Ambassador]] to have the best effect. The [[Imperial Consul]] certainly possesses the legal authority to initiate such contact in the absence of an ambassador, and in theory the [[Advisor on Orc Affairs]] would also be a suitable individual to begin this discussion.

	One element that will need to be borne in mind during any negotiation is a recent [[Amend_crime_of_slavery\|change to the law]] with regard to slavery. The law makes it illegal to pay for or purchase slaves for any reason - except with regard the repatriation of Imperial citizens. While this law would not obstruct paying a ransom for recently captured slaves, it might prove a significant impediment to any deal that involved the children or grandchildren of Imperial citizens. It may be wise to seek clarification from the magistrates before any agreement is finalised.		One element that will need to be borne in mind during any negotiation is a recent [[Amend_crime_of_slavery\|change to the law]] with regard to slavery. The law makes it illegal to pay for or purchase slaves for any reason - except with regard the repatriation of Imperial citizens. While this law would not obstruct paying a ransom for recently captured slaves, it might prove a significant impediment to any deal that involved the children or grandchildren of Imperial citizens. It may be wise to seek clarification from the magistrates before any agreement is finalised.

Rafferty at 15:34, 1 November 2018

2018-11-01T15:34:25Z

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	[[Category:Winds of Fortune]][[Category:381YE]][[Category:Recent History~~]][[Category: Spring Equinox 381YE~~]]		[[Category:Winds of Fortune]][[Category:381YE]][[Category:Recent History]]
	<ic>"In Wintermark they call it Rhyv, the bleeding wound, or the bloody dagger" said Dalbor, touching the runestone carefully. "The rune of blood - healing and harming like the double-edged knife."		<ic>"In Wintermark they call it Rhyv, the bleeding wound, or the bloody dagger" said Dalbor, touching the runestone carefully. "The rune of blood - healing and harming like the double-edged knife."

Dre at 22:08, 2 April 2018

2018-04-02T22:08:07Z

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	Rak nodded. "We also call it Rhyv, obviously -"		Rak nodded. "We also call it Rhyv, obviously -"

	"Obviously, that is ~~it's~~ name" Dalbor interjected, emptying his glass.		"Obviously, that is its name" Dalbor interjected, emptying his glass.

	" - but my mother called it the spear, not the dagger. It is still bloody, but it is the hunter's spear. It kills, it sheds blood and in doing so brings life to the tribe." The orc leaned back from the runes scattered across the table, his eyes a little distant as he finished his own drink.		" - but my mother called it the spear, not the dagger. It is still bloody, but it is the hunter's spear. It kills, it sheds blood and in doing so brings life to the tribe." The orc leaned back from the runes scattered across the table, his eyes a little distant as he finished his own drink.

Rafferty at 16:29, 12 February 2018

2018-02-12T16:29:42Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:29, 12 February 2018
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	In the six months since, and in the wake of Dogri Thulebane's removal, these demands have been discussed and repeated several times by priests in Wintermark, and by their allies. If the [[Assembly#General_Assembly\|General Assembly]] were to echo the Wintermark assembly's demands with a strongly worded statement of principle that likewise secured a greater majority, this would publicly demonstrate Synod concerns in a manner that would be hard to ignore.		In the six months since, and in the wake of Dogri Thulebane's removal, these demands have been discussed and repeated several times by priests in Wintermark, and by their allies. If the [[Assembly#General_Assembly\|General Assembly]] were to echo the Wintermark assembly's demands with a strongly worded statement of principle that likewise secured a greater majority, this would publicly demonstrate Synod concerns in a manner that would be hard to ignore.

	Alternatively, the [[Imperial Senate]] could make a formal approach to the Thule. This would initiate formal negotiations about the return of these alleged slaves, or an investigation into the alleged crime involving the green iron mine (and the concept of reparations for breaches of law is at least tacitly supported by the [[Accept_Thule_peace_treaty\|Thule peace treaty]] paragraph concerning raiding). Such an approach from the Senate would certainly have some effect, but the more formal [[authority]] the person responsible for sending such a message has the more effective it is likely to be. Ideally, such an approach would come from a newly appointed [[#Ambassador to the Thule\|Ambassador]] to have the best effect. The [[Imperial Consul]] certainly possesses the legal authority to initiate such contact in the absence of an ambassador, and in theory the [[Advisor on orc affairs]] would also be a suitable individual to begin this discussion.		Alternatively, the [[Imperial Senate]] could make a formal approach to the Thule. This would initiate formal negotiations about the return of these alleged slaves, or an investigation into the alleged crime involving the green iron mine (and the concept of reparations for breaches of law is at least tacitly supported by the [[Accept_Thule_peace_treaty\|Thule peace treaty]] paragraph concerning raiding). Such an approach from the Senate would certainly have some effect, but the more formal authority the person responsible for sending such a message has the more effective it is likely to be. Ideally, such an approach would come from a newly appointed [[#Ambassador to the Thule\|Ambassador]] to have the best effect. The [[Imperial Consul]] certainly possesses the legal authority to initiate such contact in the absence of an ambassador, and in theory the [[Advisor on orc affairs]] would also be a suitable individual to begin this discussion.

	One element that will need to be borne in mind during any negotiation is a recent [[Amend_crime_of_slavery\|change to the law]] with regard to slavery. The law makes it illegal to pay for or purchase slaves for any reason - except with regard the repatriation of Imperial citizens. While this law would not obstruct paying a ransom for recently captured slaves, it might prove a significant impediment to any deal that involved the children or grandchildren of Imperial citizens. It may be wise to seek clarification from the magistrates before any agreement is finalised.		One element that will need to be borne in mind during any negotiation is a recent [[Amend_crime_of_slavery\|change to the law]] with regard to slavery. The law makes it illegal to pay for or purchase slaves for any reason - except with regard the repatriation of Imperial citizens. While this law would not obstruct paying a ransom for recently captured slaves, it might prove a significant impediment to any deal that involved the children or grandchildren of Imperial citizens. It may be wise to seek clarification from the magistrates before any agreement is finalised.

Rafferty at 11:57, 12 February 2018

2018-02-12T11:57:54Z

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	The Thule are no longer expecting the Empire to construct an embassy; Rak has reportedly said that such a construction would be a waste of time given that any significant business will always come down to two people in a room (or tent) arguing - and one room (or tent) is very much like another. With that in mind, he has suggested that the only thing required to maintain good relations with the Dragons and ensure more opportunities for trade and mutual understanding, is the appointment of an ambassador.		The Thule are no longer expecting the Empire to construct an embassy; Rak has reportedly said that such a construction would be a waste of time given that any significant business will always come down to two people in a room (or tent) arguing - and one room (or tent) is very much like another. With that in mind, he has suggested that the only thing required to maintain good relations with the Dragons and ensure more opportunities for trade and mutual understanding, is the appointment of an ambassador.

	All that would be required would be for the Imperial Senate to pass a motion creating the title of Ambassador to the Thule; there would be no requirement to construct anything. Even without a formal embassy, the recognition of the Thule would be sufficient to ensure that the ambassador could wield ~~the powers of such an ambassador would have~~ the usual ~~powers of~~ [[~~Embassy#Ambassador_to_a_Foreign_Nation\|~~Ambassador ~~to the Thule]], [[Embassy~~#~~Authority~~\|~~Authority~~]]~~, and~~ [[~~Embassy#Intrigue~~\|~~Intrigue~~]].		All that would be required would be for the Imperial Senate to pass a motion creating the title of Ambassador to the Thule; there would be no requirement to construct anything. Even without a formal embassy, the recognition of the Thule would be sufficient to ensure that the ambassador could wield the usual [[Ambassador#Powers\|powers]] of [[ambassador\|Ambassador to the Thule]].

	''However'', the Thule have not relaxed one specific requirement. The Dragons would very much prefer that the ambassador be a Varushkan, appointed as a national rather than Imperial title. The Varushkans the Thule have been dealing with have demonstrated that they are capable of the pragmatism that they appreciate in their allies. They prefer to deal with people who have demonstrated their ability to work with the orcs, rather than risk an incident with someone from another nation. They do not seem to be concerned ''how'' it is appointed as long as it is appointed by Varushkans (the [[New_Imperial_titles#Well_Worn_Paths\|well worn path]] would equally support appointment through the Bourse (by vote of Varushkan mine or forest owners), by unanimous decision of the Varushkan [[senator\|senators]], or even the Varushkan [[National_Assembly#The_National_Assemblies\|National Assembly]]).		''However'', the Thule have not relaxed one specific requirement. The Dragons would very much prefer that the ambassador be a Varushkan, appointed as a national rather than Imperial title. The Varushkans the Thule have been dealing with have demonstrated that they are capable of the pragmatism that they appreciate in their allies. They prefer to deal with people who have demonstrated their ability to work with the orcs, rather than risk an incident with someone from another nation. They do not seem to be concerned ''how'' it is appointed as long as it is appointed by Varushkans (the [[New_Imperial_titles#Well_Worn_Paths\|well worn path]] would equally support appointment through the Bourse (by vote of Varushkan mine or forest owners), by unanimous decision of the Varushkan [[senator\|senators]], or even the Varushkan [[National_Assembly#The_National_Assemblies\|National Assembly]]).

Rafferty: /* Judgements 41 and 42 */

2017-08-23T10:30:01Z

Judgements 41 and 42

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	<quote by="Veikko, Wintermar National Assembly">We the Stormcrows of Wintermark demand reparations from the Thule for the murdered Wintermarkers found in the green iron mines in Crow's Ridge.</quote>		<quote by="Veikko, Wintermar National Assembly">We the Stormcrows of Wintermark demand reparations from the Thule for the murdered Wintermarkers found in the green iron mines in Crow's Ridge.</quote>
			==Resolution==
			The Imperial Senate appointed Juha the Spider as the first [[Ambassador to Otkodov]] during the Spring Equinox, but declined the Thule offer to make the post a national Varushkan title. They began work on an [[Miekarova#Embassy_to_Otkodov\|embassy to Otkodov]] shortly after the Summer solstice, and work was completed just before the Autumn equinox.

Beeswax at 18:42, 11 June 2017

2017-06-11T18:42:39Z

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	The Civil Service estimate that such a road would need to be [[commission\|commissioned]] by the Senate. It would require 30 wains of white granite, 60 crowns in labour costs, and take six months to complete. The benefit to the four ministries would accrue once the road was completed.		The Civil Service estimate that such a road would need to be [[commission\|commissioned]] by the Senate. It would require 30 wains of white granite, 60 crowns in labour costs, and take six months to complete. The benefit to the four ministries would accrue once the road was completed.

	As part of the agreement, the Thule will establish a trading post in southern [[Otkodov#Urdur\|Urdur]] open to Imperial merchants, and guarantee the safety of Imperial traders ~~traveling~~ to this trade hub. In addition to the Thule merchants visiting the northern Empire, Imperial merchants would be able to visit southern Urdur, potentially providing additional information about the Kvanatals, Neeyukir, and possibly Boras regions, depending where the Thule choose to build their own central trading outpost.		As part of the agreement, the Thule will establish a trading post in southern [[Otkodov#Urdur\|Urdur]] open to Imperial merchants, and guarantee the safety of Imperial traders travelling to this trade hub. In addition to the Thule merchants visiting the northern Empire, Imperial merchants would be able to visit southern Urdur, potentially providing additional information about the Kvanatals, Neeyukir, and possibly Boras regions, depending on where the Thule choose to build their own central trading outpost.

	Without such a road, the Thule are still interested in trading with the Imperial Orcs in Skarsind, but such trade would be limited and sporadic. ('''OOC:''' would fall below the abstraction layer).		Without such a road, the Thule are still interested in trading with the Imperial Orcs in Skarsind, but such trade would be limited and sporadic. ('''OOC:''' would fall below the abstraction layer).

	====Ambassador to the Thule====		====Ambassador to the Thule====
	Rak, the warlock who serves as a diplomatic envoy from the Dragons of Otkodov, has overseen the first [[Lantern's_light#Accepting_the_offer\|delivery of starfallen]] [[ilium]] to the Empire - the new seat is due to be ~~appointd~~ by the [[mine]] and [[forest]] owners of [[Varushka]] during the coming Spring Equinox. His main interest, apart from continuing to enjoy the [[Varushka_culture_and_customs#Hospitality\|hospitality]] of the cabalists at [[Volodmartz#Brez\|Void]] - seems to lie in securing closer diplomatic ties between the Thule and the Empire. There has been talk of an [[embassy]], but Rak has recently changed tack significantly.		Rak, the warlock who serves as a diplomatic envoy from the Dragons of Otkodov, has overseen the first [[Lantern's_light#Accepting_the_offer\|delivery of starfallen]] [[ilium]] to the Empire - the new seat is due to be appointed by the [[mine]] and [[forest]] owners of [[Varushka]] during the coming Spring Equinox. His main interest, apart from continuing to enjoy the [[Varushka_culture_and_customs#Hospitality\|hospitality]] of the cabalists at [[Volodmartz#Brez\|Void]] - seems to lie in securing closer diplomatic ties between the Thule and the Empire. There has been talk of an [[embassy]], but Rak has recently changed tack significantly.

	The Thule are no longer expecting the Empire to construct an embassy; Rak has reportedly said that such a construction would be a waste of time given that any significant business will always come down to two people in a room (or tent) arguing - and one room (or tent) is very much like another. With that in mind, he has suggested that the only thing required to maintain good relations with the Dragons and ensure more opportunities for trade and mutual understanding, is the appointment of an ambassador.		The Thule are no longer expecting the Empire to construct an embassy; Rak has reportedly said that such a construction would be a waste of time given that any significant business will always come down to two people in a room (or tent) arguing - and one room (or tent) is very much like another. With that in mind, he has suggested that the only thing required to maintain good relations with the Dragons and ensure more opportunities for trade and mutual understanding, is the appointment of an ambassador.
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	====An interest in relics====		====An interest in relics====
	In addition to this discussion about embassies and trade networks, Rak has passed on a single further opportunity to the Empire. During the occupation of [[Skarsind]], the Thule discovered the [[Forge_of_sorrows\|Gildenheim runeforge]]. Before they could do much more than begin their explorations, they were driven out of the territory to the Imperial armies in late 377YE. The northern orcs are still interested in the ruins, apparently more for its historical value and for insights it may offer into the history of the Thule, as for the value of the relics as ancient curios of the distant past.		In addition to this discussion about embassies and trade networks, Rak has passed on a single further opportunity to the Empire. During the occupation of [[Skarsind]], the Thule discovered the [[Forge_of_sorrows\|Gildenheim runeforge]]. Before they could do much more than begin their explorations, they were driven out of the territory to the Imperial armies in late 377YE. The northern orcs are still interested in the ruins, apparently, more for its historical value and for insights it may offer into the history of the Thule, as for the value of the relics as ancient curios of the distant past.

	As a consequence, Rak has presented a preliminary offer to the Empire. In return for free access to the ruins under Gildenheim, and permission to remove the relics, the Thule will offer the Imperial Senate 30 wains of white granite. They have no objection to observers from the Imperial Orcs overseeing their limited excavation to ensure everything remains on the level, given absolute guarantees that there will be no damage to Gildenheim, and reassured the notoriously prickly Empire that they will break no Imperial laws in the process.		As a consequence, Rak has presented a preliminary offer to the Empire. In return for free access to the ruins under Gildenheim, and permission to remove the relics, the Thule will offer the Imperial Senate 30 wains of white granite. They have no objection to observers from the Imperial Orcs overseeing their limited excavation to ensure everything remains on the level, given absolute guarantees that there will be no damage to Gildenheim, and reassured the notoriously prickly Empire that they will break no Imperial laws in the process.

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	Dogri Thulebane has been [[381YE_Spring_Equinox_winds_of_war#Wolf_in_the_Fold_.28Skarsind.29\|taken into custody]] by the [[Varushka_military_concerns#The_Army_of_the_Iron_Helms\|Iron Helms]], Crow's Keep is in ruins, and [[Skarsind#Crow.E2.80.99s_Ridge\|Crow's Ridge]] under the control of the [[Imperial Orcs]]. The passes from western [[Otkodov]] into [[Skarsind]] are open, and a threat to the Thule has been removed from their borders.		Dogri Thulebane has been [[381YE_Spring_Equinox_winds_of_war#Wolf_in_the_Fold_.28Skarsind.29\|taken into custody]] by the [[Varushka_military_concerns#The_Army_of_the_Iron_Helms\|Iron Helms]], Crow's Keep is in ruins, and [[Skarsind#Crow.E2.80.99s_Ridge\|Crow's Ridge]] under the control of the [[Imperial Orcs]]. The passes from western [[Otkodov]] into [[Skarsind]] are open, and a threat to the Thule has been removed from their borders.

	On the other side of the Empire, the [[~~Imperial~~ Senate]] has [[Allocate_Gift_of_the_Dwindling_Star\|allocated]] the [[Gift of the Dwindling Star]] as a [[Varushka\|Varushkan]] National Bourse Seat, in accordance with the wishes of the Northern [[orc\|orcs]]. The orc warlock known as Rak Who Speaks for the Dragons United is a seemingly permanent fixture in the offices associated with the new Bourse Seat - if you can call three rooms above an inn (previously the ''Red Lamb'', now the ''Red Lantern'') "offices", serving as a de facto Thule ambassador.		On the other side of the Empire, the [[Senate]] has [[Allocate_Gift_of_the_Dwindling_Star\|allocated]] the [[Gift of the Dwindling Star]] as a [[Varushka\|Varushkan]] National Bourse Seat, in accordance with the wishes of the Northern [[orc\|orcs]]. The orc warlock known as Rak Who Speaks for the Dragons United is a seemingly permanent fixture in the offices associated with the new Bourse Seat - if you can call three rooms above an inn (previously the ''Red Lamb'', now the ''Red Lantern'') "offices", serving as a de facto Thule ambassador.

	The Thule continue to extend the cautious hand of friendship to the Empire - or the northern parts of it at least. There are rumours of secret meetings with Varushkans, private negotiations between agents of the Dragons and emissaries of the [[Navarr]], cautious overtures to the [[Imperial Orcs]], and even some guarded gossip that some of the halls of [[Wintermark]] are interested in opening a dialogue with their former barbarian enemies.		The Thule continue to extend the cautious hand of friendship to the Empire - or the northern parts of it at least. There are rumours of secret meetings with Varushkans, private negotiations between agents of the Dragons and emissaries of the [[Navarr]], cautious overtures to the [[Imperial Orcs]], and even some guarded gossip that some of the halls of [[Wintermark]] are interested in opening a dialogue with their former barbarian enemies.
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	In the six months since, and in the wake of Dogri Thulebane's removal, these demands have been discussed and repeated several times by priests in Wintermark, and by their allies. If the [[Assembly#General_Assembly\|General Assembly]] were to echo the Wintermark assembly's demands with a strongly worded statement of principle that likewise secured a greater majority, this would publicly demonstrate Synod concerns in a manner that would be hard to ignore.		In the six months since, and in the wake of Dogri Thulebane's removal, these demands have been discussed and repeated several times by priests in Wintermark, and by their allies. If the [[Assembly#General_Assembly\|General Assembly]] were to echo the Wintermark assembly's demands with a strongly worded statement of principle that likewise secured a greater majority, this would publicly demonstrate Synod concerns in a manner that would be hard to ignore.

	Alternatively, the [[~~Imperial~~ Senate]] could make a formal approach to the Thule. This would initiate formal negotiations about the return of these alleged slaves, or an investigation into the alleged crime involving the green iron mine (and the concept of reparations for breaches of law is at least tacitly supported by the [[Accept_Thule_peace_treaty\|Thule peace treaty]] paragraph concerning raiding). Such an approach from the Senate would certainly have some effect, but the more formal authority the person responsible for sending such a message has the more effective it is likely to be. Ideally, such an approach would come from a newly appointed [[#Ambassador to the Thule\|Ambassador]] to have the best effect. The [[Imperial Consul]] certainly possesses the legal authority to initiate such contact in the absence of an ambassador, and in theory the [[Advisor on Orc Affairs]] would also be a suitable individual to begin this discussion.		Alternatively, the [[Senate]] could make a formal approach to the Thule. This would initiate formal negotiations about the return of these alleged slaves, or an investigation into the alleged crime involving the green iron mine (and the concept of reparations for breaches of law is at least tacitly supported by the [[Accept_Thule_peace_treaty\|Thule peace treaty]] paragraph concerning raiding). Such an approach from the Senate would certainly have some effect, but the more formal authority the person responsible for sending such a message has the more effective it is likely to be. Ideally, such an approach would come from a newly appointed [[#Ambassador to the Thule\|Ambassador]] to have the best effect. The [[Imperial Consul]] certainly possesses the legal authority to initiate such contact in the absence of an ambassador, and in theory the [[Advisor on Orc Affairs]] would also be a suitable individual to begin this discussion.

	One element that will need to be borne in mind during any negotiation is a recent [[Amend_crime_of_slavery\|change to the law]] with regard to slavery. The law makes it illegal to pay for or purchase slaves for any reason - except with regard the repatriation of Imperial citizens. While this law would not obstruct paying a ransom for recently captured slaves, it might prove a significant impediment to any deal that involved the children or grandchildren of Imperial citizens. It may be wise to seek clarification from the magistrates before any agreement is finalised.		One element that will need to be borne in mind during any negotiation is a recent [[Amend_crime_of_slavery\|change to the law]] with regard to slavery. The law makes it illegal to pay for or purchase slaves for any reason - except with regard the repatriation of Imperial citizens. While this law would not obstruct paying a ransom for recently captured slaves, it might prove a significant impediment to any deal that involved the children or grandchildren of Imperial citizens. It may be wise to seek clarification from the magistrates before any agreement is finalised.

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:47, 30 July 2020
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	In the six months since, and in the wake of Dogri Thulebane's removal, these demands have been discussed and repeated several times by priests in Wintermark, and by their allies. If the [[Assembly#General_Assembly\|General Assembly]] were to echo the Wintermark assembly's demands with a strongly worded statement of principle that likewise secured a greater majority, this would publicly demonstrate Synod concerns in a manner that would be hard to ignore.		In the six months since, and in the wake of Dogri Thulebane's removal, these demands have been discussed and repeated several times by priests in Wintermark, and by their allies. If the [[Assembly#General_Assembly\|General Assembly]] were to echo the Wintermark assembly's demands with a strongly worded statement of principle that likewise secured a greater majority, this would publicly demonstrate Synod concerns in a manner that would be hard to ignore.

	Alternatively, the [[Imperial Senate]] could make a formal approach to the Thule. This would initiate formal negotiations about the return of these alleged slaves, or an investigation into the alleged crime involving the green iron mine (and the concept of reparations for breaches of law is at least tacitly supported by the [[Accept_Thule_peace_treaty\|Thule peace treaty]] paragraph concerning raiding). Such an approach from the Senate would certainly have some effect, but the more formal authority the person responsible for sending such a message has the more effective it is likely to be. Ideally, such an approach would come from a newly appointed [[#Ambassador to the Thule\|Ambassador]] to have the best effect. The [[Imperial Consul]] certainly possesses the legal authority to initiate such contact in the absence of an ambassador, and in theory the [[Advisor on ~~orc affairs~~]] would also be a suitable individual to begin this discussion.		Alternatively, the [[Imperial Senate]] could make a formal approach to the Thule. This would initiate formal negotiations about the return of these alleged slaves, or an investigation into the alleged crime involving the green iron mine (and the concept of reparations for breaches of law is at least tacitly supported by the [[Accept_Thule_peace_treaty\|Thule peace treaty]] paragraph concerning raiding). Such an approach from the Senate would certainly have some effect, but the more formal authority the person responsible for sending such a message has the more effective it is likely to be. Ideally, such an approach would come from a newly appointed [[#Ambassador to the Thule\|Ambassador]] to have the best effect. The [[Imperial Consul]] certainly possesses the legal authority to initiate such contact in the absence of an ambassador, and in theory the [[Advisor on Orc Affairs]] would also be a suitable individual to begin this discussion.

	One element that will need to be borne in mind during any negotiation is a recent [[Amend_crime_of_slavery\|change to the law]] with regard to slavery. The law makes it illegal to pay for or purchase slaves for any reason - except with regard the repatriation of Imperial citizens. While this law would not obstruct paying a ransom for recently captured slaves, it might prove a significant impediment to any deal that involved the children or grandchildren of Imperial citizens. It may be wise to seek clarification from the magistrates before any agreement is finalised.		One element that will need to be borne in mind during any negotiation is a recent [[Amend_crime_of_slavery\|change to the law]] with regard to slavery. The law makes it illegal to pay for or purchase slaves for any reason - except with regard the repatriation of Imperial citizens. While this law would not obstruct paying a ransom for recently captured slaves, it might prove a significant impediment to any deal that involved the children or grandchildren of Imperial citizens. It may be wise to seek clarification from the magistrates before any agreement is finalised.

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:29, 12 February 2018
Line 92:		Line 92:
	In the six months since, and in the wake of Dogri Thulebane's removal, these demands have been discussed and repeated several times by priests in Wintermark, and by their allies. If the [[Assembly#General_Assembly\|General Assembly]] were to echo the Wintermark assembly's demands with a strongly worded statement of principle that likewise secured a greater majority, this would publicly demonstrate Synod concerns in a manner that would be hard to ignore.		In the six months since, and in the wake of Dogri Thulebane's removal, these demands have been discussed and repeated several times by priests in Wintermark, and by their allies. If the [[Assembly#General_Assembly\|General Assembly]] were to echo the Wintermark assembly's demands with a strongly worded statement of principle that likewise secured a greater majority, this would publicly demonstrate Synod concerns in a manner that would be hard to ignore.

	Alternatively, the [[Imperial Senate]] could make a formal approach to the Thule. This would initiate formal negotiations about the return of these alleged slaves, or an investigation into the alleged crime involving the green iron mine (and the concept of reparations for breaches of law is at least tacitly supported by the [[Accept_Thule_peace_treaty\|Thule peace treaty]] paragraph concerning raiding). Such an approach from the Senate would certainly have some effect, but the more formal [[authority]] the person responsible for sending such a message has the more effective it is likely to be. Ideally, such an approach would come from a newly appointed [[#Ambassador to the Thule\|Ambassador]] to have the best effect. The [[Imperial Consul]] certainly possesses the legal authority to initiate such contact in the absence of an ambassador, and in theory the [[Advisor on orc affairs]] would also be a suitable individual to begin this discussion.		Alternatively, the [[Imperial Senate]] could make a formal approach to the Thule. This would initiate formal negotiations about the return of these alleged slaves, or an investigation into the alleged crime involving the green iron mine (and the concept of reparations for breaches of law is at least tacitly supported by the [[Accept_Thule_peace_treaty\|Thule peace treaty]] paragraph concerning raiding). Such an approach from the Senate would certainly have some effect, but the more formal authority the person responsible for sending such a message has the more effective it is likely to be. Ideally, such an approach would come from a newly appointed [[#Ambassador to the Thule\|Ambassador]] to have the best effect. The [[Imperial Consul]] certainly possesses the legal authority to initiate such contact in the absence of an ambassador, and in theory the [[Advisor on orc affairs]] would also be a suitable individual to begin this discussion.

	One element that will need to be borne in mind during any negotiation is a recent [[Amend_crime_of_slavery\|change to the law]] with regard to slavery. The law makes it illegal to pay for or purchase slaves for any reason - except with regard the repatriation of Imperial citizens. While this law would not obstruct paying a ransom for recently captured slaves, it might prove a significant impediment to any deal that involved the children or grandchildren of Imperial citizens. It may be wise to seek clarification from the magistrates before any agreement is finalised.		One element that will need to be borne in mind during any negotiation is a recent [[Amend_crime_of_slavery\|change to the law]] with regard to slavery. The law makes it illegal to pay for or purchase slaves for any reason - except with regard the repatriation of Imperial citizens. While this law would not obstruct paying a ransom for recently captured slaves, it might prove a significant impediment to any deal that involved the children or grandchildren of Imperial citizens. It may be wise to seek clarification from the magistrates before any agreement is finalised.