Love and rockets - Revision history

Twiggy at 19:02, 27 September 2025

2025-09-27T19:02:52Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:02, 27 September 2025
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	==A Song of Love==		==A Song of Love==
	The Highborn concern with the notion of love and glory has always been that these ideals, while often uplifting, are not one of the seven virtues that help to speed souls through the ~~Labryinth~~. The Doctrine of Seven, an essential part of the Doctrines of the Way says that "''Other qualities may benefit humanity, but lend no aid through the passage of death to rebirth, and some may hinder it.''". The question has always been whether the Dawnish obsession with love and glory leads them astray?		The Highborn concern with the notion of love and glory has always been that these ideals, while often uplifting, are not one of the seven virtues that help to speed souls through the Labyrinth. The Doctrine of Seven, an essential part of the Doctrines of the Way says that "''Other qualities may benefit humanity, but lend no aid through the passage of death to rebirth, and some may hinder it.''". The question has always been whether the Dawnish obsession with love and glory leads them astray?

	This is not the first time in recent years that this question has been put to the Dawnish Assembly however - and it has been robustly answered by them. At the end of 382YE, the assembly strongly endorsed a mandate clearly laying out the complex relationship between love and glory and the seven virtues.		This is not the first time in recent years that this question has been put to the Dawnish Assembly however - and it has been robustly answered by them. At the end of 382YE, the assembly strongly endorsed a mandate clearly laying out the complex relationship between love and glory and the seven virtues.
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	The Highborn Assembly could take the view that the Dawnish have elevated love and glory above the Seven Virtues and in doing so they have imperilled their mortal souls. Or they could take the view that these qualities are themselves vile - and actively hinder passage through the Labyrinth by passing either of the following mandates.		The Highborn Assembly could take the view that the Dawnish have elevated love and glory above the Seven Virtues and in doing so they have imperilled their mortal souls. Or they could take the view that these qualities are themselves vile - and actively hinder passage through the Labyrinth by passing either of the following mandates.

	{{Mandate\|assembly=Highborn National Assembly\|mandate=Love and glory can never be virtues and mortals who pursue them in place of the Seven Virtues will find their soul trapped in the ~~Labryinth~~ as a result. We send {named priest} with 50 doses of liao to spread this insight and encourage Highborn citizens to rebuke those who pursue love and glory in place of the Seven Virtues.}}		{{Mandate\|assembly=Highborn National Assembly\|mandate=Love and glory can never be virtues and mortals who pursue them in place of the Seven Virtues will find their soul trapped in the Labyrinth as a result. We send {named priest} with 50 doses of liao to spread this insight and encourage Highborn citizens to rebuke those who pursue love and glory in place of the Seven Virtues.}}

	If this mandate is endorsed, then it will immediately remove the penalty affecting Dawnish congregations. The Grey Pilgrims will no longer be welcome in Dawnish territories and in practical terms they will no longer be able to walk the trods in [[Astolat]], [[Weirwater]] or [[Semmerholm]].		If this mandate is endorsed, then it will immediately remove the penalty affecting Dawnish congregations. The Grey Pilgrims will no longer be welcome in Dawnish territories and in practical terms they will no longer be able to walk the trods in [[Astolat]], [[Weirwater]] or [[Semmerholm]].

Rafferty: /* Hearts and Minds */

2021-06-07T11:15:13Z

Hearts and Minds

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:15, 7 June 2021
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	==Hearts and Minds==		==Hearts and Minds==
	The Dawnish troubadours have won over the hearts of most Highborn who have been lucky enough to hear them perform, and those who have conversed with them have found them passionate and earnest in their beliefs. Although Highguard and Dawn are neighbours, although the First Empress married a Dawnish man and became the [[Monarch of Dawn]], there has always been a distance between the two nations. Many Highborn inquisitors have questioned the Dawnish commitment to the virtues and for their part the dour reputation of the Highborn has often done little to endear them to the ardent Dawnish spirit.		The Dawnish troubadours have won over the hearts of most Highborn who have been lucky enough to hear them perform, and those who have conversed with them have found them passionate and earnest in their beliefs. Although Highguard and Dawn are neighbours, although the First Empress married a Dawnish man and became the [[Dawn monarchy\|Monarch of Dawn]], there has always been a distance between the two nations. Many Highborn inquisitors have questioned the Dawnish commitment to the virtues and for their part the dour reputation of the Highborn has often done little to endear them to the ardent Dawnish spirit.
	{{CaptionedImage\|file=Troubadour and Priest.jpg\|caption=Not every question has an easy answer.\|align=right\|width=500}}		{{CaptionedImage\|file=Troubadour and Priest.jpg\|caption=Not every question has an easy answer.\|align=right\|width=500}}
	Now the positive reception of the Grey Pilgrims by the Dawnish assembly - and the welcome the Highborn have shown the Dawnish troubadours has created an opportunity for the two nations to gain a new understanding a closer friendship.		Now the positive reception of the Grey Pilgrims by the Dawnish assembly - and the welcome the Highborn have shown the Dawnish troubadours has created an opportunity for the two nations to gain a new understanding a closer friendship.

Matt: /* Virtue */

2019-09-10T19:50:22Z

Virtue

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:50, 10 September 2019
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	{{Mandate\|assembly=Highborn National Assembly\|mandate=The Dawnish ideals of love and glory are an important part of the Way of Virtue - inspiring people to the kind of virtuous behaviour that is desirable for all humanity. We send {named priest} with 50 doses of liao to spread this insight and encourage Highborn citizens to be inspired by the Dawnish commitment to high ideals.}}		{{Mandate\|assembly=Highborn National Assembly\|mandate=The Dawnish ideals of love and glory are an important part of the Way of Virtue - inspiring people to the kind of virtuous behaviour that is desirable for all humanity. We send {named priest} with 50 doses of liao to spread this insight and encourage Highborn citizens to be inspired by the Dawnish commitment to high ideals.}}

	If ~~this~~ mandate is endorsed, then it will immediately remove the penalty affecting Dawnish congregations; instead both Dawnish and Highborn congregations will be boosted by the shared ideals of faith and kinship, as each seeks to learn from the other. They will gain one additional liao and two additional votes for the next two seasons.		An alternative mandate has been suggested by Cimeies of Felix's Watch; the civil service have calculated that it will have the same effect.

			{{Mandate\|assembly=Highborn National Assembly\|mandate=All laudable human qualities have their roots in the seven Virtues. We send {named priest} with 50 doses of liao to show people that love and glory are to be celebrated for the ways in which they drive the faithful to greater acts of Virtue.}}

			If either mandate is endorsed, then it will immediately remove the penalty affecting Dawnish congregations; instead both Dawnish and Highborn congregations will be boosted by the shared ideals of faith and kinship, as each seeks to learn from the other. They will gain one additional liao and two additional votes for the next two seasons.

	The kinship felt by those Highborn who have listened to the music, poetry and stories of the troubadours will be reflected in closer cooperation possible between priests of both nations for the next year.		The kinship felt by those Highborn who have listened to the music, poetry and stories of the troubadours will be reflected in closer cooperation possible between priests of both nations for the next year.

Cathtice: /* A Song of Glory */

2019-09-10T11:21:27Z

A Song of Glory

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:21, 10 September 2019
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	After a performances is complete, the hosts question their Dawnish guests at length, asking them about the role of the virtues in the piece they have performed. Not every answer is well received - it is clear that some troubadours do not share ideals endorsed by the Dawnish Assembly. They disdain any talk of the virtues themselves, and make clear that love and glory are an end in themselves and crucially that it matters not how a person attains those things.		After a performances is complete, the hosts question their Dawnish guests at length, asking them about the role of the virtues in the piece they have performed. Not every answer is well received - it is clear that some troubadours do not share ideals endorsed by the Dawnish Assembly. They disdain any talk of the virtues themselves, and make clear that love and glory are an end in themselves and crucially that it matters not how a person attains those things.

	But for the most part they are the exception. Most troubadours are more than able to hold their own, regaling their hosts with tales of glorious deeds that were Ambitious and Courageous in the extreme. They talk about the Wisdom of their most glorious weavers, the Loyalty and Vigilance of their stalwart knights. Their obvious Pride in their countryfolk shines forth in every account they deliver - and while some struggle to find a role for Prosperity in their tales - most are at pains to point out that every Dawnish citizen knows how hard it is to pass a test - whether that's a Test of Mettle, a Test of Ardour or any other test. Dawnish society is based on Ambition on Prosperity they claim. No-one is born noble - but everyone aspires to it.		But for the most part they are the exception. Most troubadours are more than able to hold their own, regaling their hosts with tales of glorious deeds that were Ambitious and Courageous in the extreme. They talk about the Wisdom of their most glorious weavers, the Loyalty and Vigilance of their stalwart knights. Their obvious Pride in their countryfolk shines forth in every account they deliver - and while some struggle to find a role for Prosperity in their tales - most are at pains to point out that every Dawnish citizen knows how hard it is to pass a test - whether that's a Test of Mettle, a Test of Ardour or any other test. Dawnish society is based on Ambition and Prosperity, they claim. No-one is born noble - but everyone aspires to it.

	Some claim that love and glory are what motivates Dawnish folk to be virtuous. Others claim that is virtuous behaviour that wins them love and glorious acclaim. Some say it is both. Many struggle to articulate some clear philosophical relationship between the virtues and their ideals, but it is obvious to their hosts that most troubadours inspire people to pursue love and glory with their heartfelt oratory, not with their erudite debate.		Some claim that love and glory are what motivates Dawnish folk to be virtuous. Others claim that is virtuous behaviour that wins them love and glorious acclaim. Some say it is both. Many struggle to articulate some clear philosophical relationship between the virtues and their ideals, but it is obvious to their hosts that most troubadours inspire people to pursue love and glory with their heartfelt oratory, not with their erudite debate.

Rafferty: /* Hearts and Minds */

2019-09-09T13:09:25Z

Hearts and Minds

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:09, 9 September 2019
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	Many want the answer to be yes. The Grey Pilgrims have received harsh words or even rough music where they have sought to share their faith in other nations and many want to embrace their Dawnish cousins as kinfolk. They want to acknowledge the virtue of these people who have shared their own beliefs with as much passion and fervour as any Highborn priest can manage.		Many want the answer to be yes. The Grey Pilgrims have received harsh words or even rough music where they have sought to share their faith in other nations and many want to embrace their Dawnish cousins as kinfolk. They want to acknowledge the virtue of these people who have shared their own beliefs with as much passion and fervour as any Highborn priest can manage.

	But they refuse to make that decision based on their feelings - instead they look to the learned, the wisest and most virtuous amongst them to speak on the value of love and glory. There are three possible mandates that the Highborn Assembly could pass to answer that question.		But they refuse to make that decision based on their feelings - instead they look to the learned, the wisest and most virtuous amongst them to speak on the value of love and glory. There are three possible mandates that the Highborn Assembly could pass to answer that question.

			These three mandates are in [[Mandate#Competing_Mandates\|competition]] with each other, and the [[Mercy is weakness\|interference of the Wisdom assembly]] and the [[Sword scholar\|sword scholars]] means that they can only be enacted if they achieve a [[Greater majority]] in the assembly.

	===Virtue===		===Virtue===
	Love and glory are not virtues, nobody is any doubt about that. Quite apart from the fact that they are not one of the Seven Virtues, there are just simple ''facts'' that prove otherwise - like the fact that people cannot be devoted to love and glory - that no-one can produce auras of either quality using liao.		Love and glory are not virtues, nobody is any doubt about that. Quite apart from the fact that they are not one of the Seven Virtues, there are just simple ''facts'' that prove otherwise - like the fact that people cannot be devoted to love and glory - that no-one can produce auras of either quality using liao.

Noserenda at 13:08, 9 September 2019

2019-09-09T13:08:13Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:08, 9 September 2019
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	"My Earl, Balian de Rainhilde, is blessed with the service of a loyal yeofolk. This good yeofolk works to keep his hall prepared and fed. She rises before sun-up to clean the grates and light the fires. When nobles are stirring in their beds she is hard at work cooking bread in preparation for the fast to be broken. She waits on the high table at every meal. She works tirelessly throughout the day. She is the rock on which our house's castle stands. My question to my fellow priests is this - why does she do this? What motivates this woman to work so hard?"		"My Earl, Balian de Rainhilde, is blessed with the service of a loyal yeofolk. This good yeofolk works to keep his hall prepared and fed. She rises before sun-up to clean the grates and light the fires. When nobles are stirring in their beds she is hard at work cooking bread in preparation for the fast to be broken. She waits on the high table at every meal. She works tirelessly throughout the day. She is the rock on which our house's castle stands. My question to my fellow priests is this - why does she do this? What motivates this woman to work so hard?"

	The inquisitor spread his hands bemused - "For the sake of Prosperity" he responded, "but I don't..." His voice trailed off as he ~~realized~~ the troubadour was firmly shaking her head.		The inquisitor spread his hands bemused - "For the sake of Prosperity" he responded, "but I don't..." His voice trailed off as he realised the troubadour was firmly shaking her head.

	"Is it Loyalty to your house that motivates this virtuous woman?" asked one of the guardians. "Is it the Glory of your House that drives her?" suggested another.		"Is it Loyalty to your house that motivates this virtuous woman?" asked one of the guardians. "Is it the Glory of your House that drives her?" suggested another.
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	The Doctrine of the Seven Virtues carries a clear warning. The Virtues are '''not''' the only qualities that benefit humanity. Other qualities exist, some of which positively hinder your passage. The Highborn know that virtue and vice are contagious. A virtuous life leads the faithful to further righteous action but vile behaviour spreads just as easily if not checked. Is the Dawnish infatuation with love and glory an example of the spread of vile behaviour?		The Doctrine of the Seven Virtues carries a clear warning. The Virtues are '''not''' the only qualities that benefit humanity. Other qualities exist, some of which positively hinder your passage. The Highborn know that virtue and vice are contagious. A virtuous life leads the faithful to further righteous action but vile behaviour spreads just as easily if not checked. Is the Dawnish infatuation with love and glory an example of the spread of vile behaviour?

	The Highborn Assembly could take the view that the Dawnish have elevated love and glory above the Seven Virtues and in doing so they have imperilled their mortal souls. Or they could take the view that these qualities are themselves vile - and actively hinder passage through the ~~Labryinth~~ by passing either of the following mandates.		The Highborn Assembly could take the view that the Dawnish have elevated love and glory above the Seven Virtues and in doing so they have imperilled their mortal souls. Or they could take the view that these qualities are themselves vile - and actively hinder passage through the Labyrinth by passing either of the following mandates.

	{{Mandate\|assembly=Highborn National Assembly\|mandate=Love and glory can never be virtues and mortals who pursue them in place of the Seven Virtues will find their soul trapped in the Labryinth as a result. We send {named priest} with 50 doses of liao to spread this insight and encourage Highborn citizens to rebuke those who pursue love and glory in place of the Seven Virtues.}}		{{Mandate\|assembly=Highborn National Assembly\|mandate=Love and glory can never be virtues and mortals who pursue them in place of the Seven Virtues will find their soul trapped in the Labryinth as a result. We send {named priest} with 50 doses of liao to spread this insight and encourage Highborn citizens to rebuke those who pursue love and glory in place of the Seven Virtues.}}

Dre at 11:58, 9 September 2019

2019-09-09T11:58:46Z

Rafferty at 11:56, 9 September 2019

2019-09-09T11:56:14Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:56, 9 September 2019
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	{{Mandate\|mandate=We, the Troubadours of Dawn, recognise that True Love and True Glory arise from the paths of virtue. Only the truly virtuous can know love, or achieve glory. Where we find a noble who truly embodies Love or Glory we shall name them alongside the champions of the Seven Virtues, and they shall be pre-eminent in their company as inspirations to all who follow Pilgrim's Path.\|assembly=Dawnish National Assembly}}		{{Mandate\|mandate=We, the Troubadours of Dawn, recognise that True Love and True Glory arise from the paths of virtue. Only the truly virtuous can know love, or achieve glory. Where we find a noble who truly embodies Love or Glory we shall name them alongside the champions of the Seven Virtues, and they shall be pre-eminent in their company as inspirations to all who follow Pilgrim's Path.\|assembly=Dawnish National Assembly}}

	These words were carried to every corner of Dawn by the Earl of Fools and by those priests working with them. With this guidance firmly in mind the troubadours of Dawn come to Highguard, spreading out across the four territories of [[Reikos]], [[Casinea]], [[Necropolis]] and [[Bastion]] so that they can sing their songs of love and glory in every chapter hall in the nation. Armed with the most beautiful poetry they can recite, the most inspiring music they can perform and the most epic tales they can recount, the ~~priets~~ of Dawn come to spread the Way to Highguard.		These words were carried to every corner of Dawn by the Earl of Fools and by those priests working with them. With this guidance firmly in mind the troubadours of Dawn come to Highguard, spreading out across the four territories of [[Reikos]], [[Casinea]], [[Necropolis]] and [[Bastion]] so that they can sing their songs of love and glory in every chapter hall in the nation. Armed with the most beautiful poetry they can recite, the most inspiring music they can perform and the most epic tales they can recount, the priests of Dawn come to spread the Way to Highguard.

	Most importantly - they come to repeat the words of the Earl of Fools; that only the truly virtuous can know love or achieve glory. That True Love and True Glory arise from the paths of virtue. And guided by the words of Kerem of the Chantry, the Highborn chapters throw open their doors and make ready to receive their guests.		Most importantly - they come to repeat the words of the Earl of Fools; that only the truly virtuous can know love or achieve glory. That True Love and True Glory arise from the paths of virtue. And guided by the words of Kerem of the Chantry, the Highborn chapters throw open their doors and make ready to receive their guests.

Rafferty at 11:46, 9 September 2019

2019-09-09T11:46:02Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:46, 9 September 2019
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	The murmur returned to the room, as those assembled whispered to each other, each keen to answer the troubadour's riddle. The Dawnish woman let them confer for a few moments more, before she spoke again.		The murmur returned to the room, as those assembled whispered to each other, each keen to answer the troubadour's riddle. The Dawnish woman let them confer for a few moments more, before she spoke again.

	"The answer is simple. My countrywoman ''is'' Prosperous - more than any other member of our house. None can question how hard she works, honest graft for which she is fairly rewarded. But she is not motivated by Prosperity. In fact she is not motivated by any of the virtues at all!" There was an audible gasp in the room at this, but the woman continued before anyone could interrupt her. "Perhaps in Highguard people are motivated to work simply because the Way of Virtue tells us that this will speed you through the ~~Labryinthe~~, but not in Dawn." The room was quiet now, deathly quiet, this verged on heresy, and no-one was quite sure what their unusual guest would say next.		"The answer is simple. My countrywoman ''is'' Prosperous - more than any other member of our house. None can question how hard she works, honest graft for which she is fairly rewarded. But she is not motivated by Prosperity. In fact she is not motivated by any of the virtues at all!" There was an audible gasp in the room at this, but the woman continued before anyone could interrupt her. "Perhaps in Highguard people are motivated to work simply because the Way of Virtue tells us that this will speed you through the Labyrinth, but not in Dawn." The room was quiet now, deathly quiet, this verged on heresy, and no-one was quite sure what their unusual guest would say next.

	"In Dawn we care about more earthly things. My friend has four young children. Her family and her husband were killed by the Druj, so she must raise the four of them by herself. She works every hour, from sun-up to sun-down, so that Balian will feel obliged to provide those children with every advantage he can offer them. In payment for her hard work, her children take lessons alongside the Earl's own daughters, learning how to read and write, how to wield sword and spear, I myself teach the four of them how to recite poetry."		"In Dawn we care about more earthly things. My friend has four young children. Her family and her husband were killed by the Druj, so she must raise the four of them by herself. She works every hour, from sun-up to sun-down, so that Balian will feel obliged to provide those children with every advantage he can offer them. In payment for her hard work, her children take lessons alongside the Earl's own daughters, learning how to read and write, how to wield sword and spear, I myself teach the four of them how to recite poetry."

Rafferty: /* Hearts and Minds */

2019-09-09T11:37:29Z

Hearts and Minds

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:37, 9 September 2019
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	==Hearts and Minds==		==Hearts and Minds==
	The Dawnish troubadours have won over the hearts of most Highborn who have been lucky enough to hear them perform, and those who have conversed with them have found them passionate and earnest in their beliefs. Although Highguard and Dawn are neighbours, although the First Empress married a Dawnish man and became the [[Monarch of Dawn]], there has always been a distance between the two nations. Many Highborn inquisitors have questioned the Dawnish commitment to the virtues and for their part the dour reputation of the Highborn has often done little to endear them to the ardent Dawnish spirit.		The Dawnish troubadours have won over the hearts of most Highborn who have been lucky enough to hear them perform, and those who have conversed with them have found them passionate and earnest in their beliefs. Although Highguard and Dawn are neighbours, although the First Empress married a Dawnish man and became the [[Monarch of Dawn]], there has always been a distance between the two nations. Many Highborn inquisitors have questioned the Dawnish commitment to the virtues and for their part the dour reputation of the Highborn has often done little to endear them to the ardent Dawnish spirit.
	{{CaptionedImage\|file=Troubadour and Priest.jpg\|caption=Not every question has an easy answer.\|align=right\|width=~~300~~}}		{{CaptionedImage\|file=Troubadour and Priest.jpg\|caption=Not every question has an easy answer.\|align=right\|width=500}}
	Now the positive reception of the Grey Pilgrims by the Dawnish assembly - and the welcome the Highborn have shown the Dawnish troubadors has created an opportunity for the two nations to gain a new understanding a closer friendship.		Now the positive reception of the Grey Pilgrims by the Dawnish assembly - and the welcome the Highborn have shown the Dawnish troubadors has created an opportunity for the two nations to gain a new understanding a closer friendship.

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	In addition, Dawnish and Highborn armies will find it almost impossible to fight alongside each other. In any military campaign where a Dawnish or Highborn army are fighting in the same territory, then both armies will receive a 10% penalty to their ability to attack or defend territory.		In addition, Dawnish and Highborn armies will find it almost impossible to fight alongside each other. In any military campaign where a Dawnish or Highborn army are fighting in the same territory, then both armies will receive a 10% penalty to their ability to attack or defend territory.

	==Participation==		==Participation==
	Any troubadour who wishes to roleplay that they have been visiting Highguard over the last three months is encouraged to create appropriate stories about their experiences, in line with the description above. Likewise, any Highborn chapter that wishes to roleplay they have hosted a troubadour or two is also encouraged to do so. For the most part, the visit has been peaceful and full of opportunities to discuss matters of faith and enjoy grand songs and stories of heroic love, and resounding glory. However, it is also acceptable for your Highborn chapter to have been critical of the troubadours - or for your troubadour to have encountered a cool reception from a particular NPC chapter - your individual story is up to you but the majority experience will have been broadly positive.		Any troubadour who wishes to roleplay that they have been visiting Highguard over the last three months is encouraged to create appropriate stories about their experiences, in line with the description above. Likewise, any Highborn chapter that wishes to roleplay they have hosted a troubadour or two is also encouraged to do so. For the most part, the visit has been peaceful and full of opportunities to discuss matters of faith and enjoy grand songs and stories of heroic love, and resounding glory. However, it is also acceptable for your Highborn chapter to have been critical of the troubadours - or for your troubadour to have encountered a cool reception from a particular NPC chapter - your individual story is up to you but the majority experience will have been broadly positive.