Heart of gold - Revision history

Matt: Text replacement - "[[Imperial Synod" to "[[Synod"

2026-01-15T21:28:14Z

Text replacement - "[[Imperial Synod" to "[[Synod"

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:28, 15 January 2026
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	For three decades, those Marchers who were forced to become thralls have worked alongside the orc thralls that the invaders brought with them. Some of these people have more in common, more shared experience of hard work in fields and mines, than they do with the people across the border in Tassato, or Kahraman. In some places that bond has grown surprisingly strong; they are not friends, by any stretch, what they are, however, is ''neighbours''.		For three decades, those Marchers who were forced to become thralls have worked alongside the orc thralls that the invaders brought with them. Some of these people have more in common, more shared experience of hard work in fields and mines, than they do with the people across the border in Tassato, or Kahraman. In some places that bond has grown surprisingly strong; they are not friends, by any stretch, what they are, however, is ''neighbours''.

	In Winter 381YE the Imperial Senate elected to [[Declare_Mournwold_thralls_foreigners\|declare the thralls foreigners]] rather than barbarians. Then in Spring 382YE the [[~~Imperial~~ Synod]] [[Fight\|sent two priests]] - Sister Meredith of the Marches and Bloodcrow Losak of the Imperial Orcs - to encourage the thralls to embrace the Way, albeit with mixed results.		In Winter 381YE the Imperial Senate elected to [[Declare_Mournwold_thralls_foreigners\|declare the thralls foreigners]] rather than barbarians. Then in Spring 382YE the [[Synod]] [[Fight\|sent two priests]] - Sister Meredith of the Marches and Bloodcrow Losak of the Imperial Orcs - to encourage the thralls to embrace the Way, albeit with mixed results.

	Due in part to the closeness that has developed between the Marchers in the Mournwold and the [[Mournwold thralls\|Jotun thralls]], the Marcher Assembly passed a statement of principle calling on the Marcher egregore to bring the thralls into the Marcher nation. At the same summit the Imperial Senate [[Appraisal_of_integration_of_Mournwold_Orcs\|passed a motion]] to appraise the situation in the Mournwold to see what could be done to integrate the Mournwold orcs.		Due in part to the closeness that has developed between the Marchers in the Mournwold and the [[Mournwold thralls\|Jotun thralls]], the Marcher Assembly passed a statement of principle calling on the Marcher egregore to bring the thralls into the Marcher nation. At the same summit the Imperial Senate [[Appraisal_of_integration_of_Mournwold_Orcs\|passed a motion]] to appraise the situation in the Mournwold to see what could be done to integrate the Mournwold orcs.

Dre at 14:25, 15 April 2025

2025-04-15T14:25:56Z

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	It's a different matter to try and ignore an entire territory populated with tens of thousands of people all of whom believe something - that orcs reincarnate - that flat out contradicts the Doctrines of the Faith. The Orcs have already made clear that they will not join the Marchers if that is what they are asked to believe and Naomi recommends that the egregore ''does not'' proceed to try to bond them when it is clear that if she succeeds then she will create an entire territory filled with Imperial citizens all of whom are openly espousing heresy.		It's a different matter to try and ignore an entire territory populated with tens of thousands of people all of whom believe something - that orcs reincarnate - that flat out contradicts the Doctrines of the Faith. The Orcs have already made clear that they will not join the Marchers if that is what they are asked to believe and Naomi recommends that the egregore ''does not'' proceed to try to bond them when it is clear that if she succeeds then she will create an entire territory filled with Imperial citizens all of whom are openly espousing heresy.

	The situation has not been improved by the questions being asked by the [[Grey ~~Pilgrim~~\|grey pilgrims]] as they travel through the Mournwold. At present the pilgrims are focusing their questions on matters of faith, getting people to question whether their views are supported by the Doctrines of the Faith. If the Marchers attempt to embrace the Mournwold Orcs without addressing their heretical beliefs, that will only reinforce the nation's reputation as a land plagued by heterodoxy.		The situation has not been improved by the questions being asked by the [[Grey pilgrim\|grey pilgrims]] as they travel through the Mournwold. At present the pilgrims are focusing their questions on matters of faith, getting people to question whether their views are supported by the Doctrines of the Faith. If the Marchers attempt to embrace the Mournwold Orcs without addressing their heretical beliefs, that will only reinforce the nation's reputation as a land plagued by heterodoxy.
	<div style="width: 400px; float: right; clear: right; margin-left:10px;" class="ic"><div class="ic-inner quote"><p>Tolerance is the crack in the foundation of a strong community.</p><small>Whittle Saying</small></div></div>		<div style="width: 400px; float: right; clear: right; margin-left:10px;" class="ic"><div class="ic-inner quote"><p>Tolerance is the crack in the foundation of a strong community.</p><small>Whittle Saying</small></div></div>
	<div style="width: 40%; float: right; margin-left: 10px; clear: right;">		<div style="width: 40%; float: right; margin-left: 10px; clear: right;">

Dre at 10:50, 20 July 2024

2024-07-20T10:50:09Z

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	It is no exaggeration to say that their entire world view is predicated on the assumption that the choice they have made ensures they will be born again when they die. For them to accept that they do not reincarnate would need them to accept that they were absolutely doomed to oblivion and that the crucial choice they took as a youth that has defined the course of their entire life was all for nothing.		It is no exaggeration to say that their entire world view is predicated on the assumption that the choice they have made ensures they will be born again when they die. For them to accept that they do not reincarnate would need them to accept that they were absolutely doomed to oblivion and that the crucial choice they took as a youth that has defined the course of their entire life was all for nothing.

	That will likely not be possible, at least not without some inspired theological solution that solves the essential dilemma. The representative of the Mournwold orcs who visited Anvil spoke with Sister Meredith and Bloodcrow Losak about these issues but it is not clear that they have been able to find an answer. It is not a problem that can be ignored - the beliefs of the thralls directly contradict [[the Doctrines of the Faith]]. If they become Imperial citizens then ~~that~~ that would make them heretics - in theory they could be prosecuted and executed for expressing their beliefs.		That will likely not be possible, at least not without some inspired theological solution that solves the essential dilemma. The representative of the Mournwold orcs who visited Anvil spoke with Sister Meredith and Bloodcrow Losak about these issues but it is not clear that they have been able to find an answer. It is not a problem that can be ignored - the beliefs of the thralls directly contradict [[the Doctrines of the Faith]]. If they become Imperial citizens then that would make them heretics - in theory they could be prosecuted and executed for expressing their beliefs.

	The Empire will usually tolerate the false beliefs of small groups of foreigners within their borders. There is an understanding that many foreigners worship all manner of false gods and similar. Provided they don't preach their faith within the Empire, the Synod do not usually bother to inquisition them for religious crimes.		The Empire will usually tolerate the false beliefs of small groups of foreigners within their borders. There is an understanding that many foreigners worship all manner of false gods and similar. Provided they don't preach their faith within the Empire, the Synod do not usually bother to inquisition them for religious crimes.

Hastur at 12:38, 4 May 2021

2021-05-04T12:38:27Z

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	Naomi makes reference to the fact that the Jotun thralls are currently still Jotun for all that they are thralls. They make no attempt to hide the fact that they are Jotun; they hear the Jotun ancestors and some of their children travel west to join the warbands of the Jotun jarls when they come of age.		Naomi makes reference to the fact that the Jotun thralls are currently still Jotun for all that they are thralls. They make no attempt to hide the fact that they are Jotun; they hear the Jotun ancestors and some of their children travel west to join the warbands of the Jotun jarls when they come of age.

	In many ways they regard their current status as simply an aberration - they are Jotun thralls who have been conquered by the Empire. In their mind that doesn't change their ~~tribe~~, it simply makes them Imperial thralls. If the Jotun return to conquer the Mournwold one day - as they have sworn to do - then they will simply become Jotun thralls again and resume paying the higher taxes the Jotun levy.		In many ways they regard their current status as simply an aberration - they are Jotun thralls who have been conquered by the Empire. In their mind that doesn't change their nature, it simply makes them Imperial thralls. If the Jotun return to conquer the Mournwold one day - as they have sworn to do - then they will simply become Jotun thralls again and resume paying the higher taxes the Jotun levy.

	Naomi's concern is that the thralls represent a potential military weakness for the Empire. Most civilians are not in a position to prevent an invasion by an army, but a populace who actively welcome the invaders could quickly become a problem. Naomi does not want to overstate the degree of risk here - the thralls are sworn not to touch weapons of war, the absolute last thing that is ever going to happen is that they rise up in support of an invading army.		Naomi's concern is that the thralls represent a potential military weakness for the Empire. Most civilians are not in a position to prevent an invasion by an army, but a populace who actively welcome the invaders could quickly become a problem. Naomi does not want to overstate the degree of risk here - the thralls are sworn not to touch weapons of war, the absolute last thing that is ever going to happen is that they rise up in support of an invading army.
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	The problem is that the thralls are implacably opposed to the Way. The key problem appears to be the idea that "''only human souls reincarnate''." To the surprise of most priests, and in contradiction of the Doctrines of the Way, the thralls of the Mournwold passionately believe that they are destined to reincarnate. Indeed their entire way of life of the Mournwold thralls is predicated on this belief.		The problem is that the thralls are implacably opposed to the Way. The key problem appears to be the idea that "''only human souls reincarnate''." To the surprise of most priests, and in contradiction of the Doctrines of the Way, the thralls of the Mournwold passionately believe that they are destined to reincarnate. Indeed their entire way of life of the Mournwold thralls is predicated on this belief.

	To the Jotun, the most crucial decision an orc can take is the choice to take up weapons and fight. They claim the Jotun name means "one who fights". They are of the Jotun ~~tribe~~, they were born Jotun, but they are thralls not Jotun warriors because when the day came to take the choice they turned aside and chose not to.		To the Jotun, the most crucial decision an orc can take is the choice to take up weapons and fight. They claim the Jotun name means "one who fights". They are of the Jotun, they were born Jotun, but they are thralls not Jotun warriors because when the day came to take the choice they turned aside and chose not to.

	They believe - as the Imperial Orcs do - that a Jotun warrior has but a single chance to cross the Howling Abyss. One life to live - those that live a life of honour will be helped by the Jotun ancestors to make the perilous journey across the Abyss. Those who fall short, fall into the Abyss and are destroyed. Crucially though the thralls believe that by choosing to become a thrall they avoid this fate. They have no chance to cross the Abyss - not in this life - but they will never face the challenging of making the attempt. Instead they will be reborn to take the choice again in the next life.		They believe - as the Imperial Orcs do - that a Jotun warrior has but a single chance to cross the Howling Abyss. One life to live - those that live a life of honour will be helped by the Jotun ancestors to make the perilous journey across the Abyss. Those who fall short, fall into the Abyss and are destroyed. Crucially though the thralls believe that by choosing to become a thrall they avoid this fate. They have no chance to cross the Abyss - not in this life - but they will never face the challenging of making the attempt. Instead they will be reborn to take the choice again in the next life.

Rafferty at 19:46, 2 September 2019

2019-09-02T19:46:53Z

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	[[Category:Winds of Fortune]][[Category:383YE Summer]][[Category:Recent History]][[Category:Orc Affairs]]		[[Category:Winds of Fortune]][[Category:383YE Summer]][[Category:Recent History]][[Category:Orc Affairs]][[Category:Appraisal]]
	<ic>		<ic>
	"Shut it orc! One more word out of you and I'll finish you."		"Shut it orc! One more word out of you and I'll finish you."

Matt at 13:42, 30 August 2019

2019-08-30T13:42:22Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:42, 30 August 2019
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	Due in part to the closeness that has developed between the Marchers in the Mournwold and the [[Mournwold thralls\|Jotun thralls]], the Marcher Assembly passed a statement of principle calling on the Marcher egregore to bring the thralls into the Marcher nation. At the same summit the Imperial Senate [[Appraisal_of_integration_of_Mournwold_Orcs\|passed a motion]] to appraise the situation in the Mournwold to see what could be done to integrate the Mournwold orcs.		Due in part to the closeness that has developed between the Marchers in the Mournwold and the [[Mournwold thralls\|Jotun thralls]], the Marcher Assembly passed a statement of principle calling on the Marcher egregore to bring the thralls into the Marcher nation. At the same summit the Imperial Senate [[Appraisal_of_integration_of_Mournwold_Orcs\|passed a motion]] to appraise the situation in the Mournwold to see what could be done to integrate the Mournwold orcs.
	{{Proverb\|proverb=A tree is known by its fruit, not by its leaves.}}		{{Proverb\|proverb=A tree is known by its fruit, not by its leaves.}}

	==Marcher Orcs==		==Marcher Orcs==
	For nearly four hundred years no orc has ever been able to join a human nation. Human egregores have tried to bond individual orcs to their nation before - but it has never succeeded no matter how compatible the individual orc appears. The settled view of most egregores is that a lone orc is simply too much, that the magic of the nation bond cannot be extended to an individual who is clearly so distinct.		For nearly four hundred years no orc has ever been able to join a human nation. Human egregores have tried to bond individual orcs to their nation before - but it has never succeeded no matter how compatible the individual orc appears. The settled view of most egregores is that a lone orc is simply too much, that the magic of the nation bond cannot be extended to an individual who is clearly so distinct.

Matt: /* Consequences */

2019-08-26T20:53:38Z

Consequences

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:53, 26 August 2019
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	It would take some significant investment by the Senate to begin the process of felling the woods. To avoid prohibitive expense, they would need to build a sawmill at Alderly Edge, somewhere the timber could be cut and dried and prepared for sale. That would require 20 wains of weirwood, 5 wains of mithril, and 50 crowns. Doing so would create an Imperial title that was a Marcher national position, appointed through the Bourse by the vote of Marcher farm owners, called the ''Woodcutter of Alderly Edge''. The woodcutter would serve with tenure and would receive an income of 15 crowns each season from the lumber sales, and would be responsible for making any decisions that might arise during the clearance of Alderly.		It would take some significant investment by the Senate to begin the process of felling the woods. To avoid prohibitive expense, they would need to build a sawmill at Alderly Edge, somewhere the timber could be cut and dried and prepared for sale. That would require 20 wains of weirwood, 5 wains of mithril, and 50 crowns. Doing so would create an Imperial title that was a Marcher national position, appointed through the Bourse by the vote of Marcher farm owners, called the ''Woodcutter of Alderly Edge''. The woodcutter would serve with tenure and would receive an income of 15 crowns each season from the lumber sales, and would be responsible for making any decisions that might arise during the clearance of Alderly.
	{{Proverb\|proverb=Seeds grow into rings, but only if you tend them.}}		{{Proverb\|proverb=Seeds grow into rings, but only if you tend them.}}

	===Taxation===		===Taxation===
	The Mournwold Orcs who own land or businesses in the Empire are already paying taxes, ever since the Imperial Senate declared them to be foreigners. In fact they were surprisingly upbeat about paying taxes - a reflection of the fact that the Empire takes far less from the thralls than the Jotun ever did. On the face of it, if they become Marchers then there won't be any more people paying tax, so there will be no impact on the Imperial treasury.		The Mournwold Orcs who own land or businesses in the Empire are already paying taxes, ever since the Imperial Senate declared them to be foreigners. In fact they were surprisingly upbeat about paying taxes - a reflection of the fact that the Empire takes far less from the thralls than the Jotun ever did. On the face of it, if they become Marchers then there won't be any more people paying tax, so there will be no impact on the Imperial treasury.

Rafferty: /* Resolution */

2019-08-19T16:33:45Z

Resolution

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:33, 19 August 2019
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	They suggest that it ''might'' be possible for some or all of them to attend Anvil at the Autumn Equinox. By that time the harvest will be in, and there will be time to relax and celebrate. They express the hope that the Empire will have made some progress on the issues that Naomi's appraisal has identified; otherwise the conversation is likely to be pleasant but unproductive. If the situation ''has'' progressed then this would be the perfect opportunity for them meet with the leaders of the Marcher people outside the Mournwold, and with the egregore.		They suggest that it ''might'' be possible for some or all of them to attend Anvil at the Autumn Equinox. By that time the harvest will be in, and there will be time to relax and celebrate. They express the hope that the Empire will have made some progress on the issues that Naomi's appraisal has identified; otherwise the conversation is likely to be pleasant but unproductive. If the situation ''has'' progressed then this would be the perfect opportunity for them meet with the leaders of the Marcher people outside the Mournwold, and with the egregore.
	==Resolution==		==Resolution==
	During the Summer Solstice 383YE, the Marcher National Assembly upheld a [[statement of principle]] raised by Sister Meredith, [[383YE_Summer_Solstice_Synod_judgements#Judgement_106\|demanding the Whittle folk abandon the false virtue of Hate]].		During the Summer Solstice 383YE, the Marcher National Assembly upheld a [[statement of principle]] raised by Sister Meredith, [[383YE_Summer_Solstice_Synod_judgements#Judgement_106\|demanding the Whittle folk abandon the false virtue of Hate]]. A second statement raised by Anna Perrin [[383YE_Summer_Solstice_Synod_judgements#Judgement_127\|endorsed greater contact between Marcher and Thrall]]. Both statements received a [[Judgement#Greater_Majority\|greater majority]].

	Meanwhile, the Imperial Orc national assembly sent Bloodcrow Udoo to [[383YE_Summer_Solstice_Synod_judgements#Judgement_86\|reassure the Mournwold thralls their children were welcome in the north]].		Meanwhile, the Imperial Orc national assembly sent Bloodcrow Udoo to [[383YE_Summer_Solstice_Synod_judgements#Judgement_86\|reassure the Mournwold thralls their children were welcome in the north]].

Rafferty: /* Resolution */

2019-08-19T16:32:33Z

Resolution

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:32, 19 August 2019
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	==Resolution==		==Resolution==
	During the Summer Solstice 383YE, the Marcher National Assembly upheld a [[statement of principle]] raised by Sister Meredith, [[383YE_Summer_Solstice_Synod_judgements#Judgement_106\|demanding the Whittle folk abandon the false virtue of Hate]].		During the Summer Solstice 383YE, the Marcher National Assembly upheld a [[statement of principle]] raised by Sister Meredith, [[383YE_Summer_Solstice_Synod_judgements#Judgement_106\|demanding the Whittle folk abandon the false virtue of Hate]].

			Meanwhile, the Imperial Orc national assembly sent Bloodcrow Udoo to [[383YE_Summer_Solstice_Synod_judgements#Judgement_86\|reassure the Mournwold thralls their children were welcome in the north]].

	==Further Reading==		==Further Reading==
	* You can read more about the Mournwold thralls [[Mournwold thralls\|here]].		* You can read more about the Mournwold thralls [[Mournwold thralls\|here]].

Rafferty: /* Meetings */

2019-08-19T16:30:38Z

Meetings

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:30, 19 August 2019
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	They suggest that it ''might'' be possible for some or all of them to attend Anvil at the Autumn Equinox. By that time the harvest will be in, and there will be time to relax and celebrate. They express the hope that the Empire will have made some progress on the issues that Naomi's appraisal has identified; otherwise the conversation is likely to be pleasant but unproductive. If the situation ''has'' progressed then this would be the perfect opportunity for them meet with the leaders of the Marcher people outside the Mournwold, and with the egregore.		They suggest that it ''might'' be possible for some or all of them to attend Anvil at the Autumn Equinox. By that time the harvest will be in, and there will be time to relax and celebrate. They express the hope that the Empire will have made some progress on the issues that Naomi's appraisal has identified; otherwise the conversation is likely to be pleasant but unproductive. If the situation ''has'' progressed then this would be the perfect opportunity for them meet with the leaders of the Marcher people outside the Mournwold, and with the egregore.
			==Resolution==
			During the Summer Solstice 383YE, the Marcher National Assembly upheld a [[statement of principle]] raised by Sister Meredith, [[383YE_Summer_Solstice_Synod_judgements#Judgement_106\|demanding the Whittle folk abandon the false virtue of Hate]].

	==Further Reading==		==Further Reading==
	* You can read more about the Mournwold thralls [[Mournwold thralls\|here]].		* You can read more about the Mournwold thralls [[Mournwold thralls\|here]].