Chords - Revision history

Twiggy at 19:22, 3 April 2026

2026-04-03T19:22:20Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:22, 3 April 2026
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	"It's not about what you call things" protested the priest. "Virtue is about actions as well as words. If you create auras of the malign forces, it's a very serious crime. You can be executed for it!"		"It's not about what you call things" protested the priest. "Virtue is about actions as well as words. If you create auras of the malign forces, it's a very serious crime. You can be executed for it!"

	Graime smiled knowingly at his fellow priest. "I don't think you need to worry about that." he grinned. "I ~~solemly~~ promise you, none of my fellow orcs are going to create any auras of retribution..."</ic>		Graime smiled knowingly at his fellow priest. "I don't think you need to worry about that." he grinned. "I solemnly promise you, none of my fellow orcs are going to create any auras of retribution..."</ic>
	<div style="float:left; width: 600px; clear: left;">{{CaptionedImage\|file=Pride and joy.png\|align=left\|caption=The Apulian Orcs have a peculiarly pragmatic view of faith and religion, but still want to know which of their ideals will be acceptable to the Empire.\|width=600}}</div>		<div style="float:left; width: 600px; clear: left;">{{CaptionedImage\|file=Pride and joy.png\|align=left\|caption=The Apulian Orcs have a peculiarly pragmatic view of faith and religion, but still want to know which of their ideals will be acceptable to the Empire.\|width=600}}</div>
	{{audio\|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbYnnJvc85o}}		{{audio\|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbYnnJvc85o}}
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	Audacity, cunning, fidelity and retribution are qualities that the Grendel see as virtues - the equal of [[Ambition]], [[Vigilance]], and [[Prosperity]]. The Imperial Synod could decide they are noble qualities that ''"may benefit humanity, but lend no aid through the passage of death to rebirth"'', to quote the Doctrine of Seven. The [[General Assembly]] could use a [[statement of principle]] to recognise one of these qualities as a noble ideal the equivalent of prized national ideals like heroism or honesty. If they wanted to recognise more than one ideal, they would need a separate judgement for each quality, and as always whether the judgement receives a [[greater majority]] will be very relevant.		Audacity, cunning, fidelity and retribution are qualities that the Grendel see as virtues - the equal of [[Ambition]], [[Vigilance]], and [[Prosperity]]. The Imperial Synod could decide they are noble qualities that ''"may benefit humanity, but lend no aid through the passage of death to rebirth"'', to quote the Doctrine of Seven. The [[General Assembly]] could use a [[statement of principle]] to recognise one of these qualities as a noble ideal the equivalent of prized national ideals like heroism or honesty. If they wanted to recognise more than one ideal, they would need a separate judgement for each quality, and as always whether the judgement receives a [[greater majority]] will be very relevant.

	That decision would put them on an equal footing with love, glory or honesty. The difference between that and one of the Seven Virtues is important, and it would mean that Apulian Orc priests couldn't claim these ideals as Virtues without risking condemnation for [[Religious_crime#Blasphemy\|blasphemy]]. But the practical difference are subtle and it is usually fine to extol these laudable qualities, even urging people to embrace them in [[mandate\|mandates]]. It would mean the Apulian Orcs were free to pursue these ideals, provided they stopped short of calling them actual Virtues then everything should be fine. The Apulians won't call them ~~virtures~~, but other than that they will continue to promote any of these qualities that the Synod recognises as acceptable, just as they do now. Indeed, it would be acceptable for ''any'' Imperial citizen to promote these qualities, just as it is acceptable for any Imperial citizen to speak in favour of honesty, heroism, glory, or love.		That decision would put them on an equal footing with love, glory or honesty. The difference between that and one of the Seven Virtues is important, and it would mean that Apulian Orc priests couldn't claim these ideals as Virtues without risking condemnation for [[Religious_crime#Blasphemy\|blasphemy]]. But the practical difference are subtle and it is usually fine to extol these laudable qualities, even urging people to embrace them in [[mandate\|mandates]]. It would mean the Apulian Orcs were free to pursue these ideals, provided they stopped short of calling them actual Virtues then everything should be fine. The Apulians won't call them virtues, but other than that they will continue to promote any of these qualities that the Synod recognises as acceptable, just as they do now. Indeed, it would be acceptable for ''any'' Imperial citizen to promote these qualities, just as it is acceptable for any Imperial citizen to speak in favour of honesty, heroism, glory, or love.

	It is also possible that one or more of these ideals is simply another name for one of the Seven Virtues. Any [[virtue assembly]] could use a statement of principle to claim one of these qualities as a true expression of their Virtue. In effect they would be saying that the ideal was simply another way of thinking and talking about the Imperial Virtue. If that were the case, the Apulian Orcs should treat the ideal like any of the other Virtues. Ideally they would use the Imperial names for them... to avoid confusion if nothing else. But if they are Virtues by another name, it is important that that is called out and recognised so that everyone can understand them for what they are. If this happens, it will encourage the spread of these ideals through [[the League]] and potentially even further as people embrace this new way of looking at the virtue in question.		It is also possible that one or more of these ideals is simply another name for one of the Seven Virtues. Any [[virtue assembly]] could use a statement of principle to claim one of these qualities as a true expression of their Virtue. In effect they would be saying that the ideal was simply another way of thinking and talking about the Imperial Virtue. If that were the case, the Apulian Orcs should treat the ideal like any of the other Virtues. Ideally they would use the Imperial names for them... to avoid confusion if nothing else. But if they are Virtues by another name, it is important that that is called out and recognised so that everyone can understand them for what they are. If this happens, it will encourage the spread of these ideals through [[the League]] and potentially even further as people embrace this new way of looking at the virtue in question.

Matt: Text replacement - "[[Imperial Synod" to "[[Synod"

2026-01-15T12:37:48Z

Text replacement - "[[Imperial Synod" to "[[Synod"

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:37, 15 January 2026
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	Under the leadership of the Salt Lord Kaliact, the [[Grendel]] of [[Spiral]] have flipped their allegiance to the Empire, [[A tide in the affairs\|handing the territory]] to the [[Wolves of War]] in exchange for the legal right to join the Empire as citizens of [[the League]]. The [[egregore\|egregores]] of the four great cities, '''Harlequin''' and '''Innamorata''', have been speaking with these Grendel to find out more about them, with a view to deciding whether or not to permit them to join, just as they would with any individual who sought to join the League (at least in theory).		Under the leadership of the Salt Lord Kaliact, the [[Grendel]] of [[Spiral]] have flipped their allegiance to the Empire, [[A tide in the affairs\|handing the territory]] to the [[Wolves of War]] in exchange for the legal right to join the Empire as citizens of [[the League]]. The [[egregore\|egregores]] of the four great cities, '''Harlequin''' and '''Innamorata''', have been speaking with these Grendel to find out more about them, with a view to deciding whether or not to permit them to join, just as they would with any individual who sought to join the League (at least in theory).

	However at the same time a number of curious priests have made an effort to speak with these newcomers to find out more about their faith. It soon transpires that while the Grendel follow seven virtues, they are not the [[The_Doctrines_of_the_Faith#The_Doctrine_of_Seven\|seven virtues]] that form part of [[the Doctrines of the Faith]]. There are important differences - differences that raise some rather important questions for the [[~~Imperial~~ Synod]].		However at the same time a number of curious priests have made an effort to speak with these newcomers to find out more about their faith. It soon transpires that while the Grendel follow seven virtues, they are not the [[The_Doctrines_of_the_Faith#The_Doctrine_of_Seven\|seven virtues]] that form part of [[the Doctrines of the Faith]]. There are important differences - differences that raise some rather important questions for the [[Synod]].

	==The Grendel Beliefs==		==The Grendel Beliefs==

Rafferty: /* Further Reading */

2023-08-31T22:15:08Z

Novemberalice at 11:36, 25 July 2023

2023-07-25T11:36:38Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:36, 25 July 2023
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	Graime smiled knowingly at his fellow priest. "I don't think you need to worry about that." he grinned. "I solemly promise you, none of my fellow orcs are going to create any auras of retribution..."</ic>		Graime smiled knowingly at his fellow priest. "I don't think you need to worry about that." he grinned. "I solemly promise you, none of my fellow orcs are going to create any auras of retribution..."</ic>
	<div style="float:left; width: 600px; clear: left;">{{CaptionedImage\|file=Pride and joy.png\|align=left\|caption=The Apulian Orcs have a peculiarly pragmatic view of faith and religion, but still want to know which of their ideals will be acceptable to the Empire.\|width=600}}</div>		<div style="float:left; width: 600px; clear: left;">{{CaptionedImage\|file=Pride and joy.png\|align=left\|caption=The Apulian Orcs have a peculiarly pragmatic view of faith and religion, but still want to know which of their ideals will be acceptable to the Empire.\|width=600}}</div>
			{{audio\|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbYnnJvc85o}}
	==Overview==		==Overview==
	Under the leadership of the Salt Lord Kaliact, the [[Grendel]] of [[Spiral]] have flipped their allegiance to the Empire, [[A tide in the affairs\|handing the territory]] to the [[Wolves of War]] in exchange for the legal right to join the Empire as citizens of [[the League]]. The [[egregore\|egregores]] of the four great cities, '''Harlequin''' and '''Innamorata''', have been speaking with these Grendel to find out more about them, with a view to deciding whether or not to permit them to join, just as they would with any individual who sought to join the League (at least in theory).		Under the leadership of the Salt Lord Kaliact, the [[Grendel]] of [[Spiral]] have flipped their allegiance to the Empire, [[A tide in the affairs\|handing the territory]] to the [[Wolves of War]] in exchange for the legal right to join the Empire as citizens of [[the League]]. The [[egregore\|egregores]] of the four great cities, '''Harlequin''' and '''Innamorata''', have been speaking with these Grendel to find out more about them, with a view to deciding whether or not to permit them to join, just as they would with any individual who sought to join the League (at least in theory).

Dre at 20:50, 23 July 2023

2023-07-23T20:50:56Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:50, 23 July 2023
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	<div style="float:left; width: 600px; clear: left;">{{CaptionedImage\|file=Pride and joy.png\|align=left\|caption=The Apulian Orcs have a peculiarly pragmatic view of faith and religion, but still want to know which of their ideals will be acceptable to the Empire.\|width=600}}</div>		<div style="float:left; width: 600px; clear: left;">{{CaptionedImage\|file=Pride and joy.png\|align=left\|caption=The Apulian Orcs have a peculiarly pragmatic view of faith and religion, but still want to know which of their ideals will be acceptable to the Empire.\|width=600}}</div>
	==Overview==		==Overview==
	Under the leadership of the Salt Lord ~~Kalliact~~, the [[Grendel]] of [[Spiral]] have flipped their allegiance to the Empire, [[A tide in the affairs\|handing the territory]] to the [[Wolves of War]] in exchange for the legal right to join the Empire as citizens of [[the League]]. The [[egregore\|egregores]] of the four great cities, '''Harlequin''' and '''Innamorata''', have been speaking with these Grendel to find out more about them, with a view to deciding whether or not to permit them to join, just as they would with any individual who sought to join the League (at least in theory).		Under the leadership of the Salt Lord Kaliact, the [[Grendel]] of [[Spiral]] have flipped their allegiance to the Empire, [[A tide in the affairs\|handing the territory]] to the [[Wolves of War]] in exchange for the legal right to join the Empire as citizens of [[the League]]. The [[egregore\|egregores]] of the four great cities, '''Harlequin''' and '''Innamorata''', have been speaking with these Grendel to find out more about them, with a view to deciding whether or not to permit them to join, just as they would with any individual who sought to join the League (at least in theory).

	However at the same time a number of curious priests have made an effort to speak with these newcomers to find out more about their faith. It soon transpires that while the Grendel follow seven virtues, they are not the [[The_Doctrines_of_the_Faith#The_Doctrine_of_Seven\|seven virtues]] that form part of [[the Doctrines of the Faith]]. There are important differences - differences that raise some rather important questions for the [[Imperial Synod]].		However at the same time a number of curious priests have made an effort to speak with these newcomers to find out more about their faith. It soon transpires that while the Grendel follow seven virtues, they are not the [[The_Doctrines_of_the_Faith#The_Doctrine_of_Seven\|seven virtues]] that form part of [[the Doctrines of the Faith]]. There are important differences - differences that raise some rather important questions for the [[Imperial Synod]].
Line 80:		Line 80:
	The Grendel believe that only the most powerful of them will be able to cross the Howling Abyss when they die. The weak, the poor, the disenfranchised, all face oblivion. Accumulating power, as much as possible, is what gives a Grendel orc a chance to avoid that dreadful fate. Their "philosophers" call this quality ''puissance'' but most Grendel simply refer to it as ''power''. Those who pursue the Grendel Virtues find they gain power in Grendel society as a result. But if joining the Empire means these Virtues cease to be useful, if something won't help an Apulian Orc gain power anymore, then by the Grendel definition ''it is no longer a Virtue anymore''.		The Grendel believe that only the most powerful of them will be able to cross the Howling Abyss when they die. The weak, the poor, the disenfranchised, all face oblivion. Accumulating power, as much as possible, is what gives a Grendel orc a chance to avoid that dreadful fate. Their "philosophers" call this quality ''puissance'' but most Grendel simply refer to it as ''power''. Those who pursue the Grendel Virtues find they gain power in Grendel society as a result. But if joining the Empire means these Virtues cease to be useful, if something won't help an Apulian Orc gain power anymore, then by the Grendel definition ''it is no longer a Virtue anymore''.

	Hence they are eager to see which of their virtues the Assemblies will acknowledge and accept, not because they invest the virtues with spiritual significance but because they want to know which of their ideals they should pursue to get ahead in the Empire. Most of the Apulian Orcs who are attending Anvil are not questioners, but they will try to help as best they can. ''Graime the Questioner'' is something of a veteran of Anvil now, and is believed to be accompanying Salt Lord ~~Kalliact~~ personally. As such he is likely to be about on Saturday afternoon. He may be more able to answer any questions that priests of the Synod may have (though he points out that each questioner has their own view of the virtues).		Hence they are eager to see which of their virtues the Assemblies will acknowledge and accept, not because they invest the virtues with spiritual significance but because they want to know which of their ideals they should pursue to get ahead in the Empire. Most of the Apulian Orcs who are attending Anvil are not questioners, but they will try to help as best they can. ''Graime the Questioner'' is something of a veteran of Anvil now, and is believed to be accompanying Salt Lord Kaliact personally. As such he is likely to be about on Saturday afternoon. He may be more able to answer any questions that priests of the Synod may have (though he points out that each questioner has their own view of the virtues).

	==Further Reading==		==Further Reading==

Responsible1: /* The Grendel Beliefs */

2023-07-23T20:21:20Z

The Grendel Beliefs

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:21, 23 July 2023
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	* '''They are asking the Imperial Synod to issue rulings on these matters at this summit'''		* '''They are asking the Imperial Synod to issue rulings on these matters at this summit'''

	The Apulian Orcs do not currently follow the Way, but they seem cheerful at the prospect of embracing it, it if it means they can join the League. They do believe in the pursuit of Virtue and they do believe it can help you cross [[Imperial_Orcs_religious_beliefs#The_Howling_Abyss\|the Howling Abyss]]. But they embrace some different virtues than the Empire, which they call audacity, cunning, fidelity and retribution. It is possible that some of these ideals could be like [[honesty]], [[glory]], [[heroism]], or [[Love in Dawn\|love]] - important qualities found throughout the Empire but not actual Virtues. Or they might just be another name for one of the Seven. At least one of them looks remarkably like [[Malign_spiritual_presences#Vengeance\|Vengeance]] - one of the [[Malign_spiritual_presences\|malign spiritual forces]] that is forbidden in the Empire.		The Apulian Orcs do not currently follow the Way, but they seem cheerful at the prospect of embracing it, if it means they can join the League. They do believe in the pursuit of Virtue and they do believe it can help you cross [[Imperial_Orcs_religious_beliefs#The_Howling_Abyss\|the Howling Abyss]]. But they embrace some different virtues than the Empire, which they call audacity, cunning, fidelity and retribution. It is possible that some of these ideals could be like [[honesty]], [[glory]], [[heroism]], or [[Love in Dawn\|love]] - important qualities found throughout the Empire but not actual Virtues. Or they might just be another name for one of the Seven. At least one of them looks remarkably like [[Malign_spiritual_presences#Vengeance\|Vengeance]] - one of the [[Malign_spiritual_presences\|malign spiritual forces]] that is forbidden in the Empire.

	The Apulians are eager to join the Empire, but keen to avoid breaking the law or bringing any religious baggage with them that will not be acceptable in the Empire. Ideally, they would like a ruling on these matters now that they are joining, rather than wait until someone gets into trouble for saying the wrong thing. Thus their priests, their ''questioners'', have petitioned the Imperial Synod to provide a ruling on each of these four other qualities that they would normally encourage their patrons to follow.		The Apulians are eager to join the Empire, but keen to avoid breaking the law or bringing any religious baggage with them that will not be acceptable in the Empire. Ideally, they would like a ruling on these matters now that they are joining, rather than wait until someone gets into trouble for saying the wrong thing. Thus their priests, their ''questioners'', have petitioned the Imperial Synod to provide a ruling on each of these four other qualities that they would normally encourage their patrons to follow.

Matt at 20:20, 23 July 2023

2023-07-23T20:20:56Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:20, 23 July 2023
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	"It's not about what you call things" protested the priest. "Virtue is about actions as well as words. If you create auras of the malign forces, it's a very serious crime. You can be executed for it!"		"It's not about what you call things" protested the priest. "Virtue is about actions as well as words. If you create auras of the malign forces, it's a very serious crime. You can be executed for it!"

	~~Graeme~~ smiled knowingly at his fellow priest. "I don't think you need to worry about that." he grinned. "I solemly promise you, none of my fellow orcs are going to create any auras of retribution..."</ic>		Graime smiled knowingly at his fellow priest. "I don't think you need to worry about that." he grinned. "I solemly promise you, none of my fellow orcs are going to create any auras of retribution..."</ic>
	<div style="float:left; width: 600px; clear: left;">{{CaptionedImage\|file=Pride and joy.png\|align=left\|caption=The Apulian Orcs have a peculiarly pragmatic view of faith and religion, but still want to know which of their ideals will be acceptable to the Empire.\|width=600}}</div>		<div style="float:left; width: 600px; clear: left;">{{CaptionedImage\|file=Pride and joy.png\|align=left\|caption=The Apulian Orcs have a peculiarly pragmatic view of faith and religion, but still want to know which of their ideals will be acceptable to the Empire.\|width=600}}</div>
	==Overview==		==Overview==

Responsible1: /* The Virtue of Power */

2023-07-23T19:54:43Z

The Virtue of Power

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:54, 23 July 2023
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	The Grendel believe that only the most powerful of them will be able to cross the Howling Abyss when they die. The weak, the poor, the disenfranchised, all face oblivion. Accumulating power, as much as possible, is what gives a Grendel orc a chance to avoid that dreadful fate. Their "philosophers" call this quality ''puissance'' but most Grendel simply refer to it as ''power''. Those who pursue the Grendel Virtues find they gain power in Grendel society as a result. But if joining the Empire means these Virtues cease to be useful, if something won't help an Apulian Orc gain power anymore, then by the Grendel definition ''it is no longer a Virtue anymore''.		The Grendel believe that only the most powerful of them will be able to cross the Howling Abyss when they die. The weak, the poor, the disenfranchised, all face oblivion. Accumulating power, as much as possible, is what gives a Grendel orc a chance to avoid that dreadful fate. Their "philosophers" call this quality ''puissance'' but most Grendel simply refer to it as ''power''. Those who pursue the Grendel Virtues find they gain power in Grendel society as a result. But if joining the Empire means these Virtues cease to be useful, if something won't help an Apulian Orc gain power anymore, then by the Grendel definition ''it is no longer a Virtue anymore''.

	Hence they are eager to see which of their virtues the Assemblies will acknowledge and accept, not because they invest the virtues with spiritual significance but because they want to know which of their ideals they should pursue to get ahead in the Empire. Most of the ~~APulian~~ Orcs who are attending Anvil are not questioners, but they will try to help as best they can. ''Graime the Questioner'' is something of a veteran of Anvil now, and is believed to be accompanying Salt Lord Kalliact personally. AS such he is likely to be about on Saturday afternoon. He may be more able to answer any questions that priests of the Synod may have (though he points out that each questioner has their own view of the virtues).		Hence they are eager to see which of their virtues the Assemblies will acknowledge and accept, not because they invest the virtues with spiritual significance but because they want to know which of their ideals they should pursue to get ahead in the Empire. Most of the Apulian Orcs who are attending Anvil are not questioners, but they will try to help as best they can. ''Graime the Questioner'' is something of a veteran of Anvil now, and is believed to be accompanying Salt Lord Kalliact personally. As such he is likely to be about on Saturday afternoon. He may be more able to answer any questions that priests of the Synod may have (though he points out that each questioner has their own view of the virtues).

	==Further Reading==		==Further Reading==

Responsible1: /* Retribution */

2023-07-23T19:53:38Z

Retribution

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:53, 23 July 2023
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	However, they don't deny that the principle of vengeance is an important part of retribution - it is literally the first word of their catechism. However Vengeance is definitely not one of the Seven Virtues, it is a false spiritual aura equivalent to [[Malign_spiritual_presences#Anarchy\|Anarchy]] and [[Malign_spiritual_presences#Hatred\|Hatred]]. The Apulian Orcs know the Empire view Vengeance in this light, and they understand the legal ramifications of that. They know they will not be permitted to preach Vengeance as if it were one of the Seven Virtues. What they want to understand is what implications that has for their belief in the importance of ''retribution''. They suggest that if it is the word "Vengeance" that the Imperial Synod object to, they could change their catechism to say "Revenge for what you have lost, retribution for what you will gain". This is a relatively popular change with many questioners since they think the alliteration between revenge and retribution will make it more appealing.		However, they don't deny that the principle of vengeance is an important part of retribution - it is literally the first word of their catechism. However Vengeance is definitely not one of the Seven Virtues, it is a false spiritual aura equivalent to [[Malign_spiritual_presences#Anarchy\|Anarchy]] and [[Malign_spiritual_presences#Hatred\|Hatred]]. The Apulian Orcs know the Empire view Vengeance in this light, and they understand the legal ramifications of that. They know they will not be permitted to preach Vengeance as if it were one of the Seven Virtues. What they want to understand is what implications that has for their belief in the importance of ''retribution''. They suggest that if it is the word "Vengeance" that the Imperial Synod object to, they could change their catechism to say "Revenge for what you have lost, retribution for what you will gain". This is a relatively popular change with many questioners since they think the alliteration between revenge and retribution will make it more appealing.

	It's difficult see how retribution might be the face of one of the Seven Virtues. There is a suggestion it could be seen as a particularly ruthless interpretation of Pride, or a focused version of Courage, or a very narrow interpretation of Vigilance, but the Apulian Orcs approached so far have been sceptical - although they have not outright disagreed. One thing that ''does'' pique their interest however is the judgement the General Assembly has already made [[Walk on#The League\|regarding Dead Reckoning]]. in which they reconciled that particular practice with the Doctrines. Some of them argue, after all, that retribution is also just good business sense.		It's difficult see how retribution might be the face of one of the Seven Virtues. There is a suggestion it could be seen as a particularly ruthless interpretation of Pride, or a focused version of Courage, or a very narrow interpretation of Vigilance, but the Apulian Orcs approached so far have been sceptical - although they have not outright disagreed. One thing that ''does'' pique their interest however is the judgement the General Assembly has already made [[Walk on#The League\|regarding Dead Reckoning]], in which they reconciled that particular practice with the Doctrines. Some of them argue, after all, that retribution is also just good business sense.

	==The Virtue of Power==		==The Virtue of Power==

Responsible1: /* Retribution */

2023-07-23T19:52:49Z

Retribution

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:52, 23 July 2023
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	===Retribution===		===Retribution===
	* '''Vengeance for what you have lost, retribution for what you will gain'''		* '''Vengeance for what you have lost, retribution for what you will gain'''
	The Grendel firmly embrace ''lex talionis'', believing that retribution is central to a just society. They say that a nation whose people do not fear retribution is one where they do not fear to steal or murder each other. They encourage [[#Fidelity\|fidelity] towards subordinates and allies, but they believe that to be powerful a person must be prepared to exact revenge from those who cross them - no matter who they are. In Grendel society, retribution can be dangerous but those who are not prepared to take the risks will find power is slowly stripped from them. They believe that the ever-present threat of retribution is harmonious, because it helps to keep all parties honest.		The Grendel firmly embrace ''lex talionis'', believing that retribution is central to a just society. They say that a nation whose people do not fear retribution is one where they do not fear to steal or murder each other. They encourage [[#Fidelity\|fidelity]] towards subordinates and allies, but they believe that to be powerful a person must be prepared to exact revenge from those who cross them - no matter who they are. In Grendel society, retribution can be dangerous but those who are not prepared to take the risks will find power is slowly stripped from them. They believe that the ever-present threat of retribution is harmonious, because it helps to keep all parties honest.

	However, they don't deny that the principle of vengeance is an important part of retribution - it is literally the first word of their catechism. However Vengeance is definitely not one of the Seven Virtues, it is a false spiritual aura equivalent to [[Malign_spiritual_presences#Anarchy\|Anarchy]] and [[Malign_spiritual_presences#Hatred\|Hatred]]. The Apulian Orcs know the Empire view Vengeance in this light, and they understand the legal ramifications of that. They know they will not be permitted to preach Vengeance as if it were one of the Seven Virtues. What they want to understand is what implications that has for their belief in the importance of ''retribution''. They suggest that if it is the word "Vengeance" that the Imperial Synod object to, they could change their catechism to say "Revenge for what you have lost, retribution for what you will gain". This is a relatively popular change with many questioners since they think the alliteration between revenge and retribution will make it more appealing.		However, they don't deny that the principle of vengeance is an important part of retribution - it is literally the first word of their catechism. However Vengeance is definitely not one of the Seven Virtues, it is a false spiritual aura equivalent to [[Malign_spiritual_presences#Anarchy\|Anarchy]] and [[Malign_spiritual_presences#Hatred\|Hatred]]. The Apulian Orcs know the Empire view Vengeance in this light, and they understand the legal ramifications of that. They know they will not be permitted to preach Vengeance as if it were one of the Seven Virtues. What they want to understand is what implications that has for their belief in the importance of ''retribution''. They suggest that if it is the word "Vengeance" that the Imperial Synod object to, they could change their catechism to say "Revenge for what you have lost, retribution for what you will gain". This is a relatively popular change with many questioners since they think the alliteration between revenge and retribution will make it more appealing.

	It's difficult see how retribution might be the face of one of the Seven Virtues. There is a suggestion it could be seen as a particularly ruthless interpretation of Pride, or a focused version of Courage, or a very narrow interpretation of Vigilance, but the Apulian Orcs approached so far have been sceptical - although they have not outright disagreed. One thing that ''does'' pique their interest however is the judgement the General Assembly has already made [[Walk on#The League\|regarding Dead Reckoning]]. in which they reconciled that particular practice with the Doctrines. Some of them argue, after all, that retribution is also just good business sense.		It's difficult see how retribution might be the face of one of the Seven Virtues. There is a suggestion it could be seen as a particularly ruthless interpretation of Pride, or a focused version of Courage, or a very narrow interpretation of Vigilance, but the Apulian Orcs approached so far have been sceptical - although they have not outright disagreed. One thing that ''does'' pique their interest however is the judgement the General Assembly has already made [[Walk on#The League\|regarding Dead Reckoning]]. in which they reconciled that particular practice with the Doctrines. Some of them argue, after all, that retribution is also just good business sense.

	==The Virtue of Power==		==The Virtue of Power==
	* '''The Apulian Orcs have asked the Imperial Synod for a ruling and seem genuinely positive about any response'''		* '''The Apulian Orcs have asked the Imperial Synod for a ruling and seem genuinely positive about any response'''

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:15, 31 August 2023
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	==Further Reading==		==Further Reading==
	* [[Windfall]] - 385YE Summer Wind of Fortune detailing the political situation in Spiral		* [[Windfall]] - 385YE Summer Wind of Fortune detailing the political situation in Spiral
	* [[TBC]]
	* [[A tide in the affairs]] - 385YE Wind of War detailing the "conquest" of Spiral		* [[A tide in the affairs]] - 385YE Wind of War detailing the "conquest" of Spiral