Across the Abyss - Revision history

Twiggy at 00:34, 20 August 2026

2026-08-20T00:34:17Z

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	===A Seat of Learning===		===A Seat of Learning===
	* '''The Senate could increase the upkeep costs of Holberg by 7 ~~Thrones~~ each season to provide access to Imperial education for the Sand Fishers'''		* '''The Senate could increase the upkeep costs of Holberg by 7 thrones each season to provide access to Imperial education for the Sand Fishers'''
	* '''Increasing the upkeep costs of Holberg by 14 ~~Thrones~~ would greatly increase the benefits to the Sand Fishers'''		* '''Increasing the upkeep costs of Holberg by 14 thrones would greatly increase the benefits to the Sand Fishers'''
	The Sand Fishers remain uncomfortable in the city of Holberg. They are clear that they find it cramped, noisy, smelly, and inhospitable and frequently express amazement that the League gave them the richest parts of the territory while choosing to live in a place where almost nothing grows and there is no food to be had. However they are slowly growing accustomed to the city, and some of the younger Sand Fishers are seen coming and going on the streets. That is when one of them discovers Holberg University.		The Sand Fishers remain uncomfortable in the city of Holberg. They are clear that they find it cramped, noisy, smelly, and inhospitable and frequently express amazement that the League gave them the richest parts of the territory while choosing to live in a place where almost nothing grows and there is no food to be had. However they are slowly growing accustomed to the city, and some of the younger Sand Fishers are seen coming and going on the streets. That is when one of them discovers Holberg University.

Matt: Text replacement - "[[Imperial Conclave" to "[[Conclave"

2026-01-15T15:54:10Z

Text replacement - "[[Imperial Conclave" to "[[Conclave"

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:54, 15 January 2026
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	Extending Imperial education to the Sand Fishers would help many more of them study the rudiments of basic magic, allowing them to learn to detect magic, create bonds and even cast a few more simple spells. It would not however, enable them to perform powerful magic - for that they would need access to Imperial lore.		Extending Imperial education to the Sand Fishers would help many more of them study the rudiments of basic magic, allowing them to learn to detect magic, create bonds and even cast a few more simple spells. It would not however, enable them to perform powerful magic - for that they would need access to Imperial lore.

	To grant them that, would need a successful [[Declaration]] of [[Concord]] by the [[~~Imperial~~ Conclave]]. In the past the Conclave has extended some benefits of Imperial lore to the Great Forest Orcs, but they gave them access only to a handful of key rituals. The civil service advise that such a solution would not be effective here. The only way the Sand Fishers will be able to develop their own magical traditions is if they are given the free access to Imperial lore in the same way the Conclave recently voted to extend access to the Commonwealth.		To grant them that, would need a successful [[Declaration]] of [[Concord]] by the [[Conclave]]. In the past the Conclave has extended some benefits of Imperial lore to the Great Forest Orcs, but they gave them access only to a handful of key rituals. The civil service advise that such a solution would not be effective here. The only way the Sand Fishers will be able to develop their own magical traditions is if they are given the free access to Imperial lore in the same way the Conclave recently voted to extend access to the Commonwealth.

	Doing so would not cost the Empire any money - but it is not without certain risks. Once ritual lore is shared, there is no way to control how the Sand Fishers might ''use'' it - as a [[Before_the_sunrise#The_Waters_of_Therunin\|recent misunderstanding]] in [[Therunin]] perhaps demonstrates. With access to a [[regio]] and enough crystal mana, it's not impossible that the people of Holberg might find their territory subject to an enchantment they did not anticipate for example. It's unlikely with just two magicians, but the risk of an incident grows over time.		Doing so would not cost the Empire any money - but it is not without certain risks. Once ritual lore is shared, there is no way to control how the Sand Fishers might ''use'' it - as a [[Before_the_sunrise#The_Waters_of_Therunin\|recent misunderstanding]] in [[Therunin]] perhaps demonstrates. With access to a [[regio]] and enough crystal mana, it's not impossible that the people of Holberg might find their territory subject to an enchantment they did not anticipate for example. It's unlikely with just two magicians, but the risk of an incident grows over time.

Twiggy: /* Overview */

2025-07-12T23:48:42Z

Overview

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:48, 12 July 2025
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	The burgeoning confidence of the Sand Fishers was shattered by the arrival of the Druj in Holberg. Disregarding the heavy losses in Ossium, it gradually became clear that the Druj had risked everything to attack the forests of Holberg, in a desperate attempt to wipe out the Sand Fishers as punishment for their "rebellion". Despite Imperial assurances that they would be protected, the orcs found it almost impossible to comprehend that the Empire might find a way to stop the Druj from attacking them struggling to conceive of anyone fighting the Druj, let alone doing to so to protect them.		The burgeoning confidence of the Sand Fishers was shattered by the arrival of the Druj in Holberg. Disregarding the heavy losses in Ossium, it gradually became clear that the Druj had risked everything to attack the forests of Holberg, in a desperate attempt to wipe out the Sand Fishers as punishment for their "rebellion". Despite Imperial assurances that they would be protected, the orcs found it almost impossible to comprehend that the Empire might find a way to stop the Druj from attacking them struggling to conceive of anyone fighting the Druj, let alone doing to so to protect them.

	To their evident surprise of the Sand Fishers, the Imperial heroes intercepted ~~the~~ the Druj forces before they could reach them. Merely making an attempt to fight for them would have been enough to bolster the Sand Fisher's crumbling morale. The resounding victory sent a clear message to everyone - the Empire would defend Holberg and everyone in the territory against the Druj. Having failed in their attempt to destroy the Sand Fishers and faced with the impossible task of assaulting the high walls of Holberg, the Druj armies turned tail and fled, retreating back into the Barrens.		To their evident surprise of the Sand Fishers, the Imperial heroes intercepted the Druj forces before they could reach them. Merely making an attempt to fight for them would have been enough to bolster the Sand Fisher's crumbling morale. The resounding victory sent a clear message to everyone - the Empire would defend Holberg and everyone in the territory against the Druj. Having failed in their attempt to destroy the Sand Fishers and faced with the impossible task of assaulting the high walls of Holberg, the Druj armies turned tail and fled, retreating back into the Barrens.

	==Ambition==		==Ambition==
	The Imperial victory over the Druj has had a profound impact on the Sand Fishers. It seems that many of them still regarded life in Misericorde with a degree of fatalism, unable to accept that this was not simply a sojourn before they were returned to a miserable existence as Druj slaves. But seeing the Druj armies flee before the Empire while inspired by the powerful auras created by Bartimaeus and the priests accompanying Skywise Rykana has transformed them. Everyone who is working to teach them the Virtues cannot help but remark on the change... the Sand Fishers are rapidly gaining the fervour of the converted.		The Imperial victory over the Druj has had a profound impact on the Sand Fishers. It seems that many of them still regarded life in Misericorde with a degree of fatalism, unable to accept that this was not simply a sojourn before they were returned to a miserable existence as Druj slaves. But seeing the Druj armies flee before the Empire while inspired by the powerful auras created by Bartimaeus and the priests accompanying Skywise Rykana has transformed them. Everyone who is working to teach them the Virtues cannot help but remark on the change... the Sand Fishers are rapidly gaining the fervour of the converted.

Hailmur at 14:22, 8 December 2023

2023-12-08T14:22:15Z

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	And so they ask... what could the Sand Fishers do for the Empire?		And so they ask... what could the Sand Fishers do for the Empire?
	==Resolution==		==Resolution==
	A number of [[statement of principle\|statements of principle]] were raised during the Winter Solstice in the Imperial Synod offering advice to the sand fishers as to how to proceed. The Imperial Senate chose to encourage the orcs to attend Holberg university, [[Increase upkeep of Holberg\|increasing the funds allocated to the territory]] to support their motion.		A number of [[statement of principle\|statements of principle]] were raised during the Winter Solstice in the Imperial Synod offering advice to the sand fishers as to how to proceed. The Imperial Senate chose to encourage the orcs to attend Holberg university, [[383YE_Winter_Solstice_Senate_sessions#Increase upkeep of Holberg\|increasing the funds allocated to the territory]] to support their motion.

Rafferty: /* Those Who Take */

2022-05-17T09:57:38Z

Those Who Take

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:57, 17 May 2022
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	And so they ask... what could the Sand Fishers do for the Empire?		And so they ask... what could the Sand Fishers do for the Empire?
			==Resolution==
			A number of [[statement of principle\|statements of principle]] were raised during the Winter Solstice in the Imperial Synod offering advice to the sand fishers as to how to proceed. The Imperial Senate chose to encourage the orcs to attend Holberg university, [[Increase upkeep of Holberg\|increasing the funds allocated to the territory]] to support their motion.

Responsible1: /* Prosperity */

2022-04-18T19:18:32Z

Prosperity

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:18, 18 April 2022
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	The last of the tenets are of particular fascination to the Sand Fishers. The idea that the Prosperous share what they have with those who deserve it intrigues them. The orcs are acutely aware of the generosity of the Empire in giving them a safe heaven from the Druj, they find the beneficence of the people of Holberg who have given them the richest part of the territory as their own almost incomprehensible. Even when some priests are honest enough to admit that many League citizens don't really see much value in the forests of Misericorde, it doesn't shift the Sand Fishers' conviction that the Empire have given them something of inestimable value. Was this great gift simply because the Empire shares what it has with those who deserve it? If so, what exactly did the Sand Fishers do to deserve this act of generosity?		The last of the tenets are of particular fascination to the Sand Fishers. The idea that the Prosperous share what they have with those who deserve it intrigues them. The orcs are acutely aware of the generosity of the Empire in giving them a safe heaven from the Druj, they find the beneficence of the people of Holberg who have given them the richest part of the territory as their own almost incomprehensible. Even when some priests are honest enough to admit that many League citizens don't really see much value in the forests of Misericorde, it doesn't shift the Sand Fishers' conviction that the Empire have given them something of inestimable value. Was this great gift simply because the Empire shares what it has with those who deserve it? If so, what exactly did the Sand Fishers do to deserve this act of generosity?

	But it is the final words of the final tenet that arose the most interest. Despise those who take without giving. The Sand Fishers are very interested in this teaching - they soon ~~have~~ have questions for what it means and especially for what it means for them.		But it is the final words of the final tenet that arose the most interest. Despise those who take without giving. The Sand Fishers are very interested in this teaching - they soon have questions for what it means and especially for what it means for them.

	Overall, the mandate appears to have been accomplished everything that might have been hoped for. The Sand Fishers have taken eagerly to the virtue of [[Prosperity]], they are incredibly hard working and the belief that they have a virtuous right to own the fruits of their labour is clearly uplifting to them. The constant reminding to the people of Holberg to trade fairly with the Sand Fishers means that people are dealing with them honestly and resisting the urge to take advantage of their naivete. The Sand Fishers may never be truly comfortable in the city itself, but they clearly feel welcome to come and go if they need to.		Overall, the mandate appears to have been accomplished everything that might have been hoped for. The Sand Fishers have taken eagerly to the virtue of [[Prosperity]], they are incredibly hard working and the belief that they have a virtuous right to own the fruits of their labour is clearly uplifting to them. The constant reminding to the people of Holberg to trade fairly with the Sand Fishers means that people are dealing with them honestly and resisting the urge to take advantage of their naivete. The Sand Fishers may never be truly comfortable in the city itself, but they clearly feel welcome to come and go if they need to.

Novemberalice at 20:37, 13 April 2022

2022-04-13T20:37:55Z

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	</ic>		</ic>
	==Overview==		==Overview==
			{{Audio\|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IevoQnVY0no}}
	The Sand Fishers were one of the first groups of orcs that the Imperial armies encountered when they invaded Ossium. At first the Sand Fishers seemed a peaceful people, possessing few weapons, only the odd bow and long knives that they use for hunting, fishing, and defence. Later it became clear that they had been enslaved by the Druj and brutalized for decades. Forced to gather food for the Druj they laboured under soul-crushing horror of the Druj miasma. When the Empire gave them an opportunity to claim the dank forests of [[Holberg#Misericorde\|Misericorde]] in Holberg, they jumped at the opportunity to put the Semmerlak between them and the Druj.		The Sand Fishers were one of the first groups of orcs that the Imperial armies encountered when they invaded Ossium. At first the Sand Fishers seemed a peaceful people, possessing few weapons, only the odd bow and long knives that they use for hunting, fishing, and defence. Later it became clear that they had been enslaved by the Druj and brutalized for decades. Forced to gather food for the Druj they laboured under soul-crushing horror of the Druj miasma. When the Empire gave them an opportunity to claim the dank forests of [[Holberg#Misericorde\|Misericorde]] in Holberg, they jumped at the opportunity to put the Semmerlak between them and the Druj.
	<div style="float:right; width: 450px; clear: right;"><box>'''Who is this for?'''<br>This wind of fortune is long, and includes a lot of narrative and world building. It is definitely not for everyone. It's intended for those players who are specifically interested in the Sand Fisher situation, and in philosophical questions about Prosperity. There are levers here, in the first section entitled Ambition, but even they are more about the narrative impact of bringing former slaves of the Druj under the League's wing than they are about building commissions.</box></div>		<div style="float:right; width: 450px; clear: right;"><box>'''Who is this for?'''<br>This wind of fortune is long, and includes a lot of narrative and world building. It is definitely not for everyone. It's intended for those players who are specifically interested in the Sand Fisher situation, and in philosophical questions about Prosperity. There are levers here, in the first section entitled Ambition, but even they are more about the narrative impact of bringing former slaves of the Druj under the League's wing than they are about building commissions.</box></div>
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	To their evident surprise of the Sand Fishers, the Imperial heroes intercepted the the Druj forces before they could reach them. Merely making an attempt to fight for them would have been enough to bolster the Sand Fisher's crumbling morale. The resounding victory sent a clear message to everyone - the Empire would defend Holberg and everyone in the territory against the Druj. Having failed in their attempt to destroy the Sand Fishers and faced with the impossible task of assaulting the high walls of Holberg, the Druj armies turned tail and fled, retreating back into the Barrens.		To their evident surprise of the Sand Fishers, the Imperial heroes intercepted the the Druj forces before they could reach them. Merely making an attempt to fight for them would have been enough to bolster the Sand Fisher's crumbling morale. The resounding victory sent a clear message to everyone - the Empire would defend Holberg and everyone in the territory against the Druj. Having failed in their attempt to destroy the Sand Fishers and faced with the impossible task of assaulting the high walls of Holberg, the Druj armies turned tail and fled, retreating back into the Barrens.
	~~{{Audio\|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IevoQnVY0no}}~~
	==Ambition==		==Ambition==
	The Imperial victory over the Druj has had a profound impact on the Sand Fishers. It seems that many of them still regarded life in Misericorde with a degree of fatalism, unable to accept that this was not simply a sojourn before they were returned to a miserable existence as Druj slaves. But seeing the Druj armies flee before the Empire while inspired by the powerful auras created by Bartimaeus and the priests accompanying Skywise Rykana has transformed them. Everyone who is working to teach them the Virtues cannot help but remark on the change... the Sand Fishers are rapidly gaining the fervour of the converted.		The Imperial victory over the Druj has had a profound impact on the Sand Fishers. It seems that many of them still regarded life in Misericorde with a degree of fatalism, unable to accept that this was not simply a sojourn before they were returned to a miserable existence as Druj slaves. But seeing the Druj armies flee before the Empire while inspired by the powerful auras created by Bartimaeus and the priests accompanying Skywise Rykana has transformed them. Everyone who is working to teach them the Virtues cannot help but remark on the change... the Sand Fishers are rapidly gaining the fervour of the converted.

Matt at 11:38, 9 April 2022

2022-04-09T11:38:42Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:38, 9 April 2022
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	The burgeoning confidence of the Sand Fishers was shattered by the arrival of the Druj in Holberg. Disregarding the heavy losses in Ossium, it gradually became clear that the Druj had risked everything to attack the forests of Holberg, in a desperate attempt to wipe out the Sand Fishers as punishment for their "rebellion". Despite Imperial assurances that they would be protected, the orcs found it almost impossible to comprehend that the Empire might find a way to stop the Druj from attacking them struggling to conceive of anyone fighting the Druj, let alone doing to so to protect them.		The burgeoning confidence of the Sand Fishers was shattered by the arrival of the Druj in Holberg. Disregarding the heavy losses in Ossium, it gradually became clear that the Druj had risked everything to attack the forests of Holberg, in a desperate attempt to wipe out the Sand Fishers as punishment for their "rebellion". Despite Imperial assurances that they would be protected, the orcs found it almost impossible to comprehend that the Empire might find a way to stop the Druj from attacking them struggling to conceive of anyone fighting the Druj, let alone doing to so to protect them.

			To their evident surprise of the Sand Fishers, the Imperial heroes intercepted the the Druj forces before they could reach them. Merely making an attempt to fight for them would have been enough to bolster the Sand Fisher's crumbling morale. The resounding victory sent a clear message to everyone - the Empire would defend Holberg and everyone in the territory against the Druj. Having failed in their attempt to destroy the Sand Fishers and faced with the impossible task of assaulting the high walls of Holberg, the Druj armies turned tail and fled, retreating back into the Barrens.
	{{Audio\|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IevoQnVY0no}}		{{Audio\|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IevoQnVY0no}}
	To their evident surprise of the Sand Fishers, the Imperial heroes intercepted the the Druj forces before they could reach them. Merely making an attempt to fight for them would have been enough to bolster the Sand Fisher's crumbling morale. The resounding victory sent a clear message to everyone - the Empire would defend Holberg and everyone in the territory against the Druj. Having failed in their attempt to destroy the Sand Fishers and faced with the impossible task of assaulting the high walls of Holberg, the Druj armies turned tail and fled, retreating back into the Barrens.

	==Ambition==		==Ambition==
	The Imperial victory over the Druj has had a profound impact on the Sand Fishers. It seems that many of them still regarded life in Misericorde with a degree of fatalism, unable to accept that this was not simply a sojourn before they were returned to a miserable existence as Druj slaves. But seeing the Druj armies flee before the Empire while inspired by the powerful auras created by Bartimaeus and the priests accompanying Skywise Rykana has transformed them. Everyone who is working to teach them the Virtues cannot help but remark on the change... the Sand Fishers are rapidly gaining the fervour of the converted.		The Imperial victory over the Druj has had a profound impact on the Sand Fishers. It seems that many of them still regarded life in Misericorde with a degree of fatalism, unable to accept that this was not simply a sojourn before they were returned to a miserable existence as Druj slaves. But seeing the Druj armies flee before the Empire while inspired by the powerful auras created by Bartimaeus and the priests accompanying Skywise Rykana has transformed them. Everyone who is working to teach them the Virtues cannot help but remark on the change... the Sand Fishers are rapidly gaining the fervour of the converted.

Matt: /* Overview */

2022-04-09T11:38:24Z

Overview

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:38, 9 April 2022
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	The burgeoning confidence of the Sand Fishers was shattered by the arrival of the Druj in Holberg. Disregarding the heavy losses in Ossium, it gradually became clear that the Druj had risked everything to attack the forests of Holberg, in a desperate attempt to wipe out the Sand Fishers as punishment for their "rebellion". Despite Imperial assurances that they would be protected, the orcs found it almost impossible to comprehend that the Empire might find a way to stop the Druj from attacking them struggling to conceive of anyone fighting the Druj, let alone doing to so to protect them.		The burgeoning confidence of the Sand Fishers was shattered by the arrival of the Druj in Holberg. Disregarding the heavy losses in Ossium, it gradually became clear that the Druj had risked everything to attack the forests of Holberg, in a desperate attempt to wipe out the Sand Fishers as punishment for their "rebellion". Despite Imperial assurances that they would be protected, the orcs found it almost impossible to comprehend that the Empire might find a way to stop the Druj from attacking them struggling to conceive of anyone fighting the Druj, let alone doing to so to protect them.
			{{Audio\|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IevoQnVY0no}}
	To their evident surprise of the Sand Fishers, the Imperial heroes intercepted the the Druj forces before they could reach them. Merely making an attempt to fight for them would have been enough to bolster the Sand Fisher's crumbling morale. The resounding victory sent a clear message to everyone - the Empire would defend Holberg and everyone in the territory against the Druj. Having failed in their attempt to destroy the Sand Fishers and faced with the impossible task of assaulting the high walls of Holberg, the Druj armies turned tail and fled, retreating back into the Barrens.		To their evident surprise of the Sand Fishers, the Imperial heroes intercepted the the Druj forces before they could reach them. Merely making an attempt to fight for them would have been enough to bolster the Sand Fisher's crumbling morale. The resounding victory sent a clear message to everyone - the Empire would defend Holberg and everyone in the territory against the Druj. Having failed in their attempt to destroy the Sand Fishers and faced with the impossible task of assaulting the high walls of Holberg, the Druj armies turned tail and fled, retreating back into the Barrens.

Hailmur at 21:25, 5 April 2022

2022-04-05T21:25:21Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:25, 5 April 2022
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	The silence grew taut but before she could say anything the orc broke into a big grin "Our ancestors are idiots. They've been dead for a thousand years. They left us to the snakes and the scorpions. The first thing we teach our children is not to listen to a single word the ancestors say."		The silence grew taut but before she could say anything the orc broke into a big grin "Our ancestors are idiots. They've been dead for a thousand years. They left us to the snakes and the scorpions. The first thing we teach our children is not to listen to a single word the ancestors say."

	Eliza blinked in astonishment. That was not at all what she'd expected to hear. She'd read somewhere that the Imperial Orcs often heard conflicting things from their ancestors, but the book had claimed that all orcs revere their ancestors anyway. Her host was clearly trying to make her feel more comfortable, to take away the sting of his words, but it seemed unlikely he was making that ~~list~~ bit up. If he'd meant to lie to her, it would make more sense to lie about the things his ancestors said than to denigrate them surely? Clearly her book was not written with the Sand Fishers in mind.		Eliza blinked in astonishment. That was not at all what she'd expected to hear. She'd read somewhere that the Imperial Orcs often heard conflicting things from their ancestors, but the book had claimed that all orcs revere their ancestors anyway. Her host was clearly trying to make her feel more comfortable, to take away the sting of his words, but it seemed unlikely he was making that last bit up. If he'd meant to lie to her, it would make more sense to lie about the things his ancestors said than to denigrate them surely? Clearly her book was not written with the Sand Fishers in mind.

	As she pondered what he'd said, another question came to mind and she blurted it out before she had time to think. "What do your ancestors say when you look at the Druj?". Dammit Eliza, she thought, you've stood in a hundred consecrated buildings before, why was she letting this one get to her?		As she pondered what he'd said, another question came to mind and she blurted it out before she had time to think. "What do your ancestors say when you look at the Druj?". Dammit Eliza, she thought, you've stood in a hundred consecrated buildings before, why was she letting this one get to her?